1.6 TD Syncro cooling

[Simon Baxter]

Buschmiede(dont know if that is the correct spelling)in germany does a complete kit

Oil Cooler

My kit will be similar to their heavy duty kit, TBH their kit is very well priced, there is no way I can get it down that low, but looking at the bore of the pipes, I was advised not to use those as due to the length of the hoses I would get a pressure drop .
The kit I am putting together will us the same sandwich plate, and a 25 row cooler as per HD kit but use a larger bore hose.
My cooler will be mounted at 4 corners too, not just dangling from the top.
I have just mocked the brackets up today, and the designs are off with the engineering shop for making out of stainless.
My kit will also use stainless nuts and bolts as it is mounted right at the front I don't wan't the fittings corroding as they will get he full brunt of what comes through the grille.

Anyway, like I say, I can't see them being massive sellers, and the kit will be in this country not in Germany so no faffing with transfering money into someones bank who you don't know!

[syncroand101]

I can't see them being massive sellers, and the kit will be in this country not in Germany so no faffing with transfering money into someones bank who you don't know!

Not to mention that transferring the money costs £5-20 then shipping is £15-30. AND Its further to send it back when something ain't right. and and and.

Will your sandwich contain a thermostat (mm tasty filling) of some kind? Do they as standard?

[andysimpson]

Buschmiede(dont know if that is the correct spelling)in germany does a complete kit

Oil Cooler

My kit will be similar to their heavy duty kit, TBH their kit is very well priced, there is no way I can get it down that low, but looking at the bore of the pipes, I was advised not to use those as due to the length of the hoses I would get a pressure drop .
The kit I am putting together will us the same sandwich plate, and a 25 row cooler as per HD kit but use a larger bore hose.
My cooler will be mounted at 4 corners too, not just dangling from the top.
I have just mocked the brackets up today, and the designs are off with the engineering shop for making out of stainless.
My kit will also use stainless nuts and bolts as it is mounted right at the front I don't wan't the fittings corroding as they will get he full brunt of what comes through the grille.

Anyway, like I say, I can't see them being massive sellers, and the kit will be in this country not in Germany so no faffing with transfering money into someones bank who you don't know!

What type of pipes are you using? For me anything other than proper hydraulic pipes are asking for trouble come winter time. Pressure drop can not be an issue if using a sandwhich plate with relief valve.

[Simon Baxter]

Pipes, Aeroquip 5/8's, as recommended by the oil cooler people, Mocal.
I have talked at length with these guys, they deal with oil cooling all day long, I explained what I was trying to achieve and they guided me through it, their only main concern was the length of the pipes (10 metres!) They suggested using 5/8's as it would reduce the load on the oil pump and reduce pressure drop.
Im no expert, hence taking advice from them, although it's not new to me they know better!
Sandwich plate, yes, 80 degree thermostat, they can supply thermostats of different temperatures if required (For TDI conversions that run cooler etc and have a tendancy to produce a lot of sludge as anyone who services TDI's that have been "Babied" will tell you!)
As I say, obviously being a legitimate trader they offer me a discount, so I just sell the parts on for the same as they would and make a few quid to cover the cost of the postage from them to me.

[andysimpson]

Pipes, Aeroquip 5/8's, as recommended by the oil cooler people, Mocal.
I have talked at length with these guys, they deal with oil cooling all day long, I explained what I was trying to achieve and they guided me through it, their only main concern was the length of the pipes (10 metres!) They suggested using 5/8's as it would reduce the load on the oil pump and reduce pressure drop.
Im no expert, hence taking advice from them, although it's not new to me they know better!

I can see the point about the length of pipes and possible pressure drop but thats the point of a sandwhich plate with a bypass valve, even if the oil pipes are blocked the engine will still get everything the oil pump kicks out and still via the filter. It sounds to me like mocal are looking at it as a 100% full flow racing engine, and then you end up with a plumbing system like a porsche (not good).

[syncroand101]

Whats the worry with the

Aeroquip 5/8's

Is it lack of "hardiness"? As I am not convinced Simon intends this as a Syncro application more a generic Oil cooler for T25's. SImon? Whereas where it for a Syncro and these are pretty much underslung we'd be looking at something hardier...?

Just curious..

*puts stick back down in case he picked up the wrong end*

[Simon Baxter]

Pipes, Aeroquip 5/8's, as recommended by the oil cooler people, Mocal.
I have talked at length with these guys, they deal with oil cooling all day long, I explained what I was trying to achieve and they guided me through it, their only main concern was the length of the pipes (10 metres!) They suggested using 5/8's as it would reduce the load on the oil pump and reduce pressure drop.
Im no expert, hence taking advice from them, although it's not new to me they know better!

I can see the point about the length of pipes and possible pressure drop but thats the point of a sandwhich plate with a bypass valve, even if the oil pipes are blocked the engine will still get everything the oil pump kicks out and still via the filter. It sounds to me like mocal are looking at it as a 100% full flow racing engine, and then you end up with a plumbing system like a porsche (not good).

Why would a pipe become blocked? Im fairly sure that the way the thermostat is designed that if a pipe were to become blocked then it has a failsafe in the form of a ligher spring that will retract and restore oil flow.
The thermostat works not by opening or closing the flow to the cooler rather it bypasses the cooler and oil flows directly through the sandwich plate, when the oil gets to temp it then starts letting some to the cooler.

The cool thing about a sandwich plate is that if there ever where any problems with the cooler, or the pipework then you can remove the oil filter, remove the sandwich plate and put it back together and bypass the system all together. Filter heads with pipes omit this facility unless you happen to carry around a loop of hose!

[Simon Baxter]

Whats the worry with the

Aeroquip 5/8's

Is it lack of "hardiness"? As I am not convinced Simon intends this as a Syncro application more a generic Oil cooler for T25's. SImon? Whereas where it for a Syncro and these are pretty much underslung we'd be looking at something hardier...?

Just curious..

*puts stick back down in case he picked up the wrong end*

If your that way inclined the braided hose can be supplied, but if it's routed correctly I can see no problems, how many front to rear coolant pipes or heater hoses have you damaged off road?

Kit is gunna be a generic Diesel T3 oil cooler kit, but I really don't think that the braided hoses would be worth the extra, unless you do something daft like cable tie them to the bottom of the protection bars!

If it's fitted properly I can't see any reason why you should have problems. But hey, thats why things are tested first!

[HarryMann]

Presumably these pipes would be mounted well above the prop rails anyway, and if you've ever tried to abrade or cut through aeroqip pipes, its not an easy job. Theoretically possible I suppose but practically extremely unlikely.

Anyway, I'm going for a small but thick Gti cooler in the rear quarter with a 10" fan sucking down through the box's floor and the cooler sealed off so air has to come along the duct from o/s grille and down through it. Collecting 3 ft pipes tomorrow (with weird VW olives at one end) - total cost so far with non-thermo sandwich, Metro fan, and Ebay cooler about £45 + pipes (£35).

Fan mounting and ductwork a sheet metalworker's nightmare, but hey, been there before, done that and doing it again. Had the parts and got hot oil, so why not? Great thread, we all seem to agree that a top-flight oil-cooler is necessary for these wunder-engines - Yes?

[syncropaddy]

I have used Aeroquip piping for oil coolers for years on all sorts of projects and the stainless braided stuff would be fine for Syncro use. 5/8 bore should be fine with this kit for all the reasons Simon/Mocal have said. Its also light and easy to use. Hydraulic piping, on the other hand, can be arkward to use and is much heavier as well as not dissapating vibrations as well as the Aeroquip product. This kit sounds good and as long as the piping is routed correctly and out of harms way then I would see no problems using it on a Syncro

[syncroand101]

Aye great to have an interesting an informative thread!? Wonders never cease!

Points taken onboard... best of luck with the kit Simon.

[andysimpson]

Pipes, Aeroquip 5/8's, as recommended by the oil cooler people, Mocal.
I have talked at length with these guys, they deal with oil cooling all day long, I explained what I was trying to achieve and they guided me through it, their only main concern was the length of the pipes (10 metres!) They suggested using 5/8's as it would reduce the load on the oil pump and reduce pressure drop.
Im no expert, hence taking advice from them, although it's not new to me they know better!

Why would a pipe become blocked? Im fairly sure that the way the thermostat is designed that if a pipe were to become blocked then it has a failsafe in the form of a ligher spring that will retract and restore oil flow.
The thermostat works not by opening or closing the flow to the cooler rather it bypasses the cooler and oil flows directly through the sandwich plate, when the oil gets to temp it then starts letting some to the cooler.

The cool thing about a sandwich plate is that if there ever where any problems with the cooler, or the pipework then you can remove the oil filter, remove the sandwich plate and put it back together and bypass the system all together. Filter heads with pipes omit this facility unless you happen to carry around a loop of hose!

The point i was trying to make was it does not matter how restrictive the hoses are the by pass valve will prevent any problems.

I take it the sandwich plate you have has the thermostat built in. The one i have just has a bypass valve and the thermostat is remote.

[Simon Baxter]

What make is yours Andy?
Everything of mine is sourced from Mocal.

Clive, the GTI cooler? from a MK1? if so then that is just a beetle oil cooler, you have a couple of options to make this slightly better, either use a 1.6CT cooler and you will get a M10x1 threaded hole in it for a temp sender, or even better use a 2.0l CU cooler as they are a bit bigger.
If you use the CU cooler you will have to use longer bolts.

I have fitted my kit totally today, didn't take too long at all. I am waiting for the nice stainless fittings to arrive (Ordered this morning) and waiting to hear back form the machine shop 'bout the brackets.

Initial roadtest, water temp seems much more stable, I have also fitted a 70 degree coolant thermostat from VW, I brought van up some decent hills and it deffo runs cooler.
When doing the sandwich plate I drained the oil filter, upon refilling of the engine oil I reckon I added 2 litres, abviously some went into filling what I poured out of the filter but an increase of oil capacity can only be a good thing.
Scarey moment was when I pulled up outside the house and had a quck feel of the cooler! yowzers! hot as a muther f**ker! it makes you wonder how they lived without one!

Yes, it is nice to have a propper discussion again, I think we all know the reason why this thread hasn't turned into a slanging match!
Wheres the :peace smiley!?

[HarryMann]

Quick work there, excellent. Just a ? about s/s for the brackets, but if they don't cost much more it saves painting or plating costs. And am sure the World's chromium reserves can stand it

Got the hoses today, £55 inc. Vear And Tear -
About 3' long. They replaced Mocal's funny M18 adaptor fitting (he said it was possibly missing a maching operation, very steep taper c.f. the VW ones, and managed to get the oil cooler olive to match up at the other end). Still seemed expensive though, but we are down south!
They're not allowed to cut off and re-make swaged ends anymore after a plant worker died when an altered hose fitting came off and hit him - H&S mandate.

Yes, Mk. 1 Golf cooler, 8" x 3" x 3" with 5 rows. Have now wrapped it in 1/8" dural plates to enhance heat-sink ability and provide a mounting. Still slight ? over getting the arrangement just right but think it will just about go. We'll see how it performs, maybe by Monday, but a lot of sodding about getting it in there satisfactorily still to go - mind you, have also been working on a water-injection system for the engine, but that's much further away. Promises to transform EGTs and power when on boost (hopefully in opposite directions)

One wonders sometimes whether these are oil-cooled diesels!
.. and VW's wisdom - with all the crap they used to wrap around the thing as far as aux water pumps and blowers for the turbo etc. etc. and yet didn't have the sense to put a decent oil cooler on them - that's not good engineering!

[Simon Baxter]

Brackets will be in 2mm stainless.

VW's taper is a different shape to the metric fitting you can get here.

I may have a 2.0l aircooler oil cooler if you want to have a f**k about with it?

Can try to dig out and take to vanfest?