Nuts and bolts for a beginner

[therealchrisgray]

Hi all! I've just dived into a repair on the assumption that I've done all this before, but have suddenly realised that it's 3 or 4 decades since I was maintaining my old Cortina and I'm basically a beginner at all this again.

Some words of advice would be appreciated on dealing with nuts and bolts. General "don't do that," or "here's the best practise" is good, specifics for my situation are even better.

I have a cracked exhaust manifold in my 1.9D engine and the mountings for the silencer are also shot. Only two weeks to get it sorted, but not a lot of miles to do this coming summer. The mission should really to be replace the broken bits properly, although after a few hours sweating and bashing knuckles I'm also looking longingly at the various bandaging solutions Amazon is trying to sell me.

Have spanners, sockets, etc but nothing fancy.

Thanks

[therealchrisgray]

Here's the manifold, you can see the crack where the exhaust pipe attaches. It looks to be old? Is it bodgable for a few months until I have more time?



The exhaust was attached to it with just these two, currently. I can't see any evidence there was anything else holding them together and recently lost.



I count eight nuts holding the manifold in place and can get a socket on them. I've given them a spritz with WD40 but haven't tried to put any pressure on yet. The engine was only installed six weeks ago and came without a manifold, so I'm assuming nothing should be rusted in place.

Am I right? Or should I just get it to a garage that knows what they're doing before I start breaking things?
Anyway, I got them off without a problem. First problem solved.

[therealchrisgray]

Next in line are the mountings for the silencer, which are pretty straightforwardly complex!

(From below. Engine on left of pic, exhaust - rear end of the van - at right.)



The green ones are 17mm, look new, and fix the silencer to the mounting plate. The other side is accessible with difficulty, so I could probably get a spanner on the nuts. But I need to remove the whole plate to replace the rubbers. (Do I?)

Here's a back view:


The yellow ones highlighted in the 1st pic seem to be integrated into the rubber of the mounting plate. I can't see any way to get a spanner onto the other end. Not much point undoing them in situ?

The fitting seems to be attached at the top. Here's a view from above, with the two bolts holding it highlighted in orange.


Everything seems to be very tightly fixed in place. Is it just a case of "if brute force is not working then you're not using enough of it"? Or am I missing a trick?

Which would you undo first?

[therealchrisgray]

And finally, the other (tailpipe) end of the silencer.

A pic for clarity. (From below, engine on right of pic)


And another with highlights


The yellow ones seem to go into the rubber, nothing to grab onto on the other side so the nut and bolt turn together.

The green one seems to be securing the mounting plate and rubber to the bracket. The bottom one is accessible both sides, just. The top one is hidden behind the oil filler and pretty much inaccessible both sides.

The orange ones holding the bracket are a bit scary. The most forward one does have a nut on the other end, but the other two seem to be mounted into the engine casing itself. And one of them has a different head as well, so presumably not original. I'm worried about cracking the oil pan. But it does look like I'll have to remove the whole bracket to get access to the mounting plate. Or, again, have I missed something?

Thanks for any insights or suggestions. You guys are always a mine of information and experience.

[muttleypup]

To remove the silencer, at the manifold/down-pipe end undo the two highlighted in green (17mm?), tailpipe end it's the two highlighted yellow.  If these are just spinning, it sounds like they're no longer bonded into the rubber you might be lucky and be able to force the silencer off once the exhaust clamp is undone.  If not, get a hacksaw in, probably going to be tight) and cut the rubber through.  Once the silencer is off it makes more sense how the mounts are fitted.

[muttleypup]

Re the manifold, I'd say probably not salvageable, given it's cracked and split open I doubt the mountings for the downpipe will marry up.  Even if it could be saved, it'd have to come off to be sorted, in which case may as well replace it, by the time you've found someone who can weld cast material and paid them to do it.  Can't be sure but it looks like a 1.6 CS / 1.7 KY manifold in which case it should be fairly easy to source a reasonably priced used or new one

[therealchrisgray]

To remove the silencer ...

Thank you so much. Mission accomplished!

If I might pick your brains some more:

As I removed the silencer, the mounting bracket closest to the manifold fell off onto the ground. Pretty sure it shouldn't do that!

The rubber itself looks OK, but surely the two pads should be bonded to these metal plates?



Do I need two of these - https://brickwerks.co.uk/product/exhaus ... t3-diesel/

The other end seems OK, but might as well do it while it's off.



Is my understanding correct? I need to buy 3 of the same thing and replace the failed ones?

I'm left with a question about why they've failed. Is it possible that they've been prised off by a Spanish mechanic who was unfamiliar with the setup? I'm kind of hoping that's the reason, as it means I don't have to worry there's some other cause that will come back to haunt me.

Thanks in advance

[muttleypup]

Yes should be bonded to the plate. Buy three and replace all, theyre cheap enough and you dont want to be doing it all again if the ‘good’ one fails. Possibly a result of brute force and ignorance but maybe just bad luck that both went at the same time

[therealchrisgray]

Parts ordered, thanks!

[muttleypup]

Had another look at the manifold picture....the crack appears to be where the stud should be.  If the other three are ok, with either studs fitted or the threads in the holes are good you might get away with re-attaching the downpipe with 3 fixings for now, at least to get mobile again.  Probably need a smear of jointing paste to stop exhaust blow.  This is if you don't have time to source a replacement manifold.

[therealchrisgray]

Sadly it looks like one hole completely gone, one cracked, and two usable. (Stud still in one, gasket hanging off it in pic.)

Might have a go with exhaust putty, jointing compound, a fibreglass bandage, and wire it all up just to get me where I need to go in a couple of weeks. Then I'll have all summer to find a manifold.

Even if I find one now, I'm terrified of having a problem with one or more studs holding the manifold to the engine. I don't have tools or expertise to deal with that in a hurry, lying under the van on the drive. And finding a garage to deal with it at short notice is next to impossible.

[colinthefox]

One reason that those rubber mounts can fail on a 1.9 conversion is that the block is about 9mm taller than the 1.6 so they are under stress. It took a couple of failed sets of mounts before I discovered that.
You can file the bolt holes so that it all fits without stress. If possible the rubber should be in compression when it's all done up. It's a right fiddle to get the two left mounts done up at the best of times.
As said above, a 1.6 CS manifold is the one to go for.

[muttleypup]

you've recently had an engine replacement, yes?  If so I'd have thought the manifold was swapped from the old 1Y to the 'new' AEF, in which case it SHOULD come off fairly easily.  Replacement CS manifolds seem readily available, for example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155530442308.
to get you moving again, you could try sourcing new studs and nuts, carefully wind the studs into the cracked/broken holes with a good amount of JB Weld High Heat and let if go off properly.  This will hopefully give you something to secure the downpipe to keeping it aligned properly....one stud and some wire probably won't 

[therealchrisgray]

... it SHOULD come off fairly easily. 

VW owners are nothing if not optimistic, aren't we?

I found a photo of the engine before it went in, and can see it was delivered with the original studs in place. Resolution is not great, but they don't look to be in perfect condition. I wasn't there when the manifold was fitted, so I don't know how easy they found it, but the probability of something going wrong if I try to take them off on the drive is too high for my tastes while I'm under time pressure.

It does look like something I can tackle in a few months though. Thanks for the link, that looks like what I need. Not ordering anything til I've got the old one off safely though!

[therealchrisgray]

One reason that those rubber mounts can fail on a 1.9 conversion is that the block is about 9mm taller than the 1.6 so they are under stress.

It didn't seem to be under any stress when I pulled it off. I'm guessing these welds, presumably dating back to the original diesel conversion - some time in the '90s in Poland - are to accommodate that?