Leisure battery advice

[Shinnster]

Hi all,

the time has come to get a leisure battery in my van. Ive been using a second car starter battery for the past 2 years which has kind of done a job but that's now dead and doesn't hold any charge really.
After looking around and doing some research i'm still struggling to find a good budget option, so I wondered what people are using?

Ive looked at some AGM ones, but some of them still list CCA but i thought leisure batteries do not have any CCA as they arent for starting vehicles?! so i'm a little confused if that makes a difference, or it just needs to be a deep cycle leisure battery and can have CCA listed.

The battery is located under my rock and roll bed so size isnt really an issue, and i'd be looking to spend up to £150 so wondered if anyone had a recommendation.
its mainly used to keep my cool box / fridge running and charge phones and a few lights .

[Aidan]

AGMs can be used for starting, they are often used in stop start engined vehicles

I went AGM as I'm not sold on the lithium options, there seem to be some issues, as well as the benefits but a few peeps I know have spent arm and leg on Lithium and then had problems...

I went with Exide battery on Ebay, but 2 years ago they were a little cheaper, but there's a 15% discount available to me at the moment, I don't know if it's available to all Ebay users

[Stesaw]

I've got a 110ah agm leisure battery, have used it to start the van a couple of times. But all in all seems fine aside from being a big heavy block like lead acid. Lithium batteries do have the advantage of being lighter and you can mount them sideways etc if you so wished and you can get more power out of them without the risk of damage to the battery.

If you plan to run a lot of electric devices and not be on hookup then lithium might be the better option. But the outlay is pretty high with the batteries and all the other gubbins.

My leisure system is isolated so no split charge just two 130w solar panels on an mppt controller. Keeps it topped up, I can charge phones or other devices with no problem. I have the stereo on as well, the heater and lights can be on with no issues as well at night, but obviously don't run the heater when sleeping.

Our fridge is duff I think so no clue on how that much would draw, looking at modern ones ive seen it was about 1.9ah draw so... on a good day solar panels would easily cover that.

[cobblers]

I'm going to go on a bit here, so apologies for the wall of text but Lithium Ion batteries are a subject that I'm passionate about right now
I will never buy another lead acid leisure battery again, and will never advise anyone else to do the same!

Like for like, budget LiFePo4 batteries are now down to around the same price or cheaper than lead acid batteries - £220 for a 100AH LiFePo4 from Fogstar, vs £300 for a pair of cheap 100ah lead acid batteries needed to achieve the same usable capacity.

• You can use 100% of the capacity of a Lithium battery without causing harm, whereas the usable capacity of a lead acid battery is only 50%.
  
• They're a third of the size and weight of equivalent lead acid battery setup
  
• They'll last at least 5 times a many cycles as a lead acid battery
  
• They're MUCH more resistant to use and abuse than a lead acid battery - All lithium ion batteries have internal battery protection systems, so they can't be damaged by over-discharge or over-charge. If you leave the fridge on and come back to the van a month later the battery will be flat, but after it's charged it'll be undamaged. A lead acid battery would be severely damaged by this.
  If for some reason your solar charger decides to start pumping out 18 volts, the lithium battery would just internally cut off the charge once it reached 14.5. A lead acid battery would boil up and fill your van with noxious and explosive gas!
  You can drop a spanner across the terminals of decent LiFePo4 battery and neither you, the spanner, or the battery are likely to suffer any harm (I wouldn't do this on purpose though).
  

The only real downsides are that you need to use a DC-DC charger (£100+) rather than a cheap split charge relay (£30), and they won't accept a charge when the internals of the battery are below freezing.

4 years ago when I built my big camper I was quite nervous of Lithium-Ion batteries for a few reasons, but I made a £1000 and 200kg mistake by fitting 600ah of lead acid. Back then, lithium would have been a bit over twice the price, but it would have been worth it.

Just as an example of their durability, a decent lead acid battery (if treated reasonably well and only taken to 50%) will last 200-400 cycles before losing a significant amount of capacity.
I have a battery bank made up of cheap, bargain basement grade B "reject" Lithium Ion cells that we charge up at night on Economy 7 and then use throughout the day. Every day it is charged up to 100%, and then discharged right down to 0%. After almost 300 days of this abuse, I measured the usable capacity at 319Ah. Slightly more than it's rated capacity of 315Ah, and basically no different to the 320Ah I measured after a few cycles.

Anyway, back to the main topic!
For £170 you can get a 100Ah "Eco-Worthy" LiFeP04 battery which are a decent budget option, it's roughly half the size and weight of a big car battery and it would give you double or triple the capacity.
I have personally used Fogstar batteries with great success but they're an extra £50 for the same capacity. You would have to rely on solar charging though, your existing split charge system is unlikely to be suitable.
Eco-worthy do a 50AH battery which would comfortably do the job, and save you some cash and weight.

[shepster]

I'll second the lithium route, Fogstar in particular.

Both myself and my Son have the 105ah batreries and they're pretty good to be fair, they also do a 'budget ' version now without the Bluetooth and heater for about £200.

[Alfredo]

Does the Fogstar 105ah fit under the T25 passenger seat?

[Shinnster]

thanks for the very detailed replies guys, much appreciated and definitely given me food for thought now to spend that little bit more !
i had looked at lithium but was put off by the price, and my van doesn't have solar fitted yet (its in the plans for the future!)

 

[shepster]

Does the Fogstar 105ah fit under the T25 passenger seat?

No, there are very few that do, Daughter has a T25 with battery under seat but its only around 70ah lead acid.

Needs to be no taller than 175mm if I recall, most are 190mm and the lithium a bit taller again.

[cobblers]

Does the Fogstar 105ah fit under the T25 passenger seat?

Some might fit if you put them on their side, but the Fogstar 100ah is 260x168x209mm so it's too big, the battery tray depth is about 195mm.

[rollercoaster]

I'm looking to replace my leisure batteries,
they were as recommended on here lead acid,
one under each front seat.
Starter is under the rear seat.
This will be my third set killed, due to discharge..
Quite expensive, but easy to do.

Think I would like to go for the lithium.
Interested to see if theres underseat options.
Guess I would be rethinking the whole setup.
I currently have a split charge relay only.

Not clear so far, 
could jump start the van off lithium leisure?
Always nice to have that backup.

[dcworm57]

I'm looking to replace my leisure batteries,
they were as recommended on here lead acid,
one under each front seat.
Starter is under the rear seat.
This will be my third set killed, due to discharge..
Quite expensive, but easy to do.

Think I would like to go for the lithium.
Interested to see if theres underseat options.
Guess I would be rethinking the whole setup.
I currently have a split charge relay only.

Not clear so far, 
could jump start the van off lithium leisure?
Always nice to have that backup.

There is a lithium under the seat option from Campervan culture , they are not cheap though. Have a look on their website 
 

[Alfredo]

 

There is a lithium under the seat option from Campervan culture , they are not cheap though. Have a look on their website 

That's why I asked about the Fogstar which is the same height as the CC one.

CC lithium Dimensions:
L x W x H mm 260 x 160 x 210

 210 mm is taller than the maximum 175mm quoted by many.

The CC one is 60ah at nearly £600
Fogstar is 105ah for around £300

[shepster]

Just messure the space yourself, if you have 'built up' battery covers on and no swivel seats you may well fit a taller battery under there but if you have either a swivel or you want the battery flush with the top of the 'seat box' then a 190mm battery won't go in.

[crazydiamond]

I am at the same point keep killing lead acid batteries and looking at LIFPo4 100ah battery and b to b setup. Whats the thoughts on a 20amp b to b for a standard cu engine output? What about a 20amp setup at about £145 from ebay I use a fold up solar panel when parked up.
Or a victron 20amp

[totorro]

 

There is a lithium under the seat option from Campervan culture , they are not cheap though. Have a look on their website 

That's why I asked about the Fogstar which is the same height as the CC one.

CC lithium Dimensions:
L x W x H mm 260 x 160 x 210

 210 mm is taller than the maximum 175mm quoted by many.

The CC one is 60ah at nearly £600
Fogstar is 105ah for around £300

I don't think the 60Ah one currently on the CVC website is the one which fits under the seat. There's some information on it here - https://campervanculture.com/vw-t25-t3- ... bluetooth/ - but the product link and video have been removed.

Doesn't look like CVC sell it any more, but it seems to be this one - https://www.lithiumpro.co.uk/newshop/12 ... _yjG2Er5e6 - 189mm high and I think the top of the box is 185mm? Still twice the price of the Fogstar.

I've been looking around at options as well and wondered if 2x 30Ah would be a viable option - https://uk.eco-worthy.com/products/life ... d_source=1 - 176mm high and 166mm (2x83mm) wide would as well.