Auto to Manual conversion, Porsche cv's, Linkage refurb

[Dueller]

So here we go again..

For those new to my adventures with Valerie here's a quick rundown:

Rebuilt engine, twin carbs, didn't like it
Fitted Mondeo st220 v6
Broke 3 Auto boxes, including Porsche 924 2.5
Fitted Audi 2.7 tdi 6 speed manual, sat too low, driveshaft angle was too severe





Now going manual, fitting a stock 5 speed

Got a DW gearbox from a DF engine van, told working, came with driveshafts that I've swapped to my Porsche cv's as the grease was lumpy and old. Boots were OK so I've got my new ones to store away.







Decided to use my first adapter plate from the auto conversion and work out the flywheel measurements as the Ford fitment is nowhere near the VW flywheel shape





Struggled at first then found this, it's an Alfa adaption to VW, game on!



As per my engine conversion thread the adapter is 30mm thick, so I needed the Ford flywheel the same, then bolt the VW flywheel to it so the clutch etc is where it's expected to be. My engineer's took 3 weeks over this and skimmed the clutch surface too, fitted a new clutch kit 215mm











My engineer added in a steel plate to the Ford flywheel to level it off when the VW sits on top, bolted as can't weld the cast iron. Yes I know it's doable..!







Had to shave the VW nipple down as was sat on the bolt heads for the Ford flywheel, back to Steve at Flat4Mania to sort as was a Saturday









Had to reengineer the adapter bottom bolts as for whatever reason it didnt sit correctly without it being rotated resulting in it locking up, welded tabs to the gearbox face so its locked in place now, changed the starter to a long stud too as no access once assembled

Took 2 goes to refit after I knocked the thrust bearing off, BLOODY VW'S, it was one of those jobs

Starts and runs fine now

The linkage i got from Rog in Leicester and was hoping to fit it and see how it goes but it was proper aged so have torn it down to refurb













Shifter needs one guide block and both end pieces, also have a shifter rebuild and short shift kit coming, well worth it as made a huge difference on my Doka

The centre linkage had a wobble to it i couldn't sort, then I realised the circlips on the end of the pins were gone, rusted away I guess



Fitted some long bolts instead and tensioned them



My Brickwerks order should be here tomorrow but I won't be going too mad on documenting this, it's been covered well by others

Fitment tomorrow and check for drive after I bleed the clutch

[Dueller]

Fitted my driveshafts today so starting to see the end now of the big bolt on stuff

Easy to do with a wheel off the ground and the box in neutral so it rotates for better access to the bolts

Lifted both rear wheels off the ground and started the engine in what I believe was 2nd gear, ran fine and I have drive!

Still got the clutch to connect up and bleed but can't change gear for the life of me at the moment...

Brickwerks order arrived so refurbed my linkage and shifter, fitted into place



Adjustment is a problem, it's a 2 arm job to find a gear, proper stiff

I've read the Wiki on this and can't see a solution, I've loosened the joints off but other than the 8-10mm spline join i don't see anything else

Something I have noticed is at the gearbox end the bellows either side of the bush are distorted where they come out of the bush mounting

Any ideas welcome here

[Dueller]

Fitted my driveshafts today so starting to see the end now of the big bolt on stuff

Easy to do with a wheel off the ground and the box in neutral so it rotates for better access to the bolts

Lifted both rear wheels off the ground and started the engine in what I believe was 2nd gear, ran fine and I have drive!

Still got the clutch to connect up and bleed but can't change gear for the life of me at the moment...

Brickwerks order arrived so refurbed my linkage and shifter, fitted into place



Adjustment is a problem, it's a 2 arm job to find a gear, proper stiff

I've read the Wiki on this and can't see a solution, I've loosened the joints off but other than the 8-10mm spline join i don't see anything else

Something I have noticed is at the gearbox end the bellows either side of the bush are distorted where they come out of the bush mounting

Any ideas welcome here

[silverbullet]

That engine will shred the DW, its the early fine tooth gearbox, had one on a EJ22 in a Microbus with fat tyres and it somehow survived.
VW only put autos on their biggest engine, the 3.7 Oettinger wbx6 with 330Nm.
Good luck.

[Aidan]

re a stiff gearchage, there has been an issue with rear onions for the linkage, the solid rifled ones that you sandwich between the boots in the mounting plates, it may also be an issue with the boots too as they are now only available aftermarket quality which may be thicker and less flexible or too grippy - anyway it all needs to be well lubed and any casting lines that might be impinging the ability of the ball to swivel might need to be removed, so the ball can move in the sandwich - one option is to swap to the early set up without the boots with the hollow softer rear onion which may work better, they seem to be better quality than the solid rifled ball, but stock changes and at times both have been horrible compared to the original genuine ones

Other issues you may have is down to which gearbox mount (petrol or diesel) which rear linkage (petrol or diesel) which cup on the rear linkage (petrol or diesel) and which mounting plate for the rear onion (petrol or diesel) are you using and are the parts compatible with the position of the engine, I don't suppose you ever calculated the centre line of the engine and transmission and compared to the 2 stock set ups (petrol or diesel) ?

in the original set up the diesel engine is more like level and the front of the gearbox is set higher in the vehicle than the petrol set up which is a little nose down with the front of the box lower, hence the parts are all subtly different to achieve same gearshift from what is basically the same transmission and gearstick - so for example if changing from a wbx to an inline 4 VW engine like an AGG you are best off using the diesel variants of the mount, rear linkage, cup and rear onion mount so the set up is the same as the diesel which is also a VW inline 4. Failure to change to the appropriate parts ("I just bent the linkage to fit, no need to change the parts" school) can result in a poor shifting experience and popping out of 5th gear issue which will damage the gear and synchroniser slider. Many vans have been sold on with engine conversions and poor shift and gear retention issues because peeps won't do it right like VW did back in the day, they wouldn't have made 2 versions of things that are almost the same if they hadn't had to.

You are pushing the envelope beyond what we (the collective T25/T3 scene) know works so you may need to change the parts you are using, if re-lubing and sanding off any sprues on the rear onion ball so it can move , or changing to the early set up, doesn't work - if you have access to anther van with a good set up then you can take measurements and compare, ideally you'd have both a petrol and a diesel van to hand to understand and measure the subtle differences and work out what you need to get as close as possible to the original set up

also just to confirm the rear onion mounting plate goes on the front of the boss on the gearbox it can be fitted on the rear side of the boss but the boots will be more compressed and can force the box out of gear

[Dueller]

Awesome reply thank you

Yeah with nothing to go on I'm relying on the used linkage kit as a guide, it's from an H reg van and has the rubber ball, not the rifled type

Should add that the guy i got the box from had cut his mechanisim otherwise id have grabbed the lot, the mount plate was still on the box and it too was the rubber ball type bush

It was quite a squeeze to mate the 2 onion halves together, I will double check the placement of the plate but I'm sure it's on the front end of the van, away from the engine

Thinking I will remove the bellows and see if that makes a difference, will get more pics up too

Cheers again Aidan

[Dueller]

That engine will shred the DW, its the early fine tooth gearbox, had one on a EJ22 in a Microbus with fat tyres and it somehow survived.
VW only put autos on their biggest engine, the 3.7 Oettinger wbx6 with 330Nm.
Good luck.

Yeah I'm working with what I've got, will change to an AAP i think was a stronger 5 speed or go DK with a 4 speed and do it all again

Time will tell

Cheers

[Aidan]

The fine toothed 4th and 5th gears were only used upto August 1984 after that they have the slightly larger teethed gears. the fine toothed gears are fine but don't boot them hard, the later gears aren't that much stronger.
Aftermarket HD gears are available but only for 5th in the 5 speed, there isn't an alternative 4th gearset of the same or higher ratio as the stock 1.02 4th.
DW is the tallest 5 speed box in 5th gear
AAP is fractionally lower geared in 5th but 5% taller in all other gears
DW has a 2 pinion diff, AAP has a 4 pinion diff
Other than that they are the same and as strong as each other and liable to the issues the 094 transmission has equally
There's a bit we can do to strengthen them but not a huge amount
So just drive it gently or you will be redoing it all again (which I know is part of the fun )

If you have the rubber boots at the rear of the linkage then you need the solid rifled ball 251 711 207 E


or you can fit the ball as used in the middle, at the rear, without the protective boots 251 711 207 D - this was the early set up, used for many years

[Aidan]

oh fyi DK has 2 pinion diff and fine toothed gears, alternative HD gears are available but the DK isn't super special strong, that is an oft-stated fallacy imho, also be aware the Aircooled boxes (like the DK) used longer drive shafts because box is mounted slightly further forward in the vehicle so swapping between the Aircooled and watercooled gearboxes isn't as straightforward as changing between 4 and 5 speed where all you need to change is the front mount

[silverbullet]

The 094 is going to be working hard to handle 280Nm (book figure for 3.0 ST220 motor) without any mods. I was under the impression that the Autos were stronger (usually the case) so maybe something else is going on?
A UN1 would handle it no problem but they aren't at all common or cheap.

[silverbullet]

Having said that, I do know of a 1-owner Oetti 3.7 syncro that hasn't destroyed its transmission but it is driven with respect.

[Dueller]

Having said that, I do know of a 1-owner Oetti 3.7 syncro that hasn't destroyed its transmission but it is driven with respect.

Kinda pointless...

[Dueller]

The 094 is going to be working hard to handle 280Nm (book figure for 3.0 ST220 motor) without any mods. I was under the impression that the Autos were stronger (usually the case) so maybe something else is going on?
A UN1 would handle it no problem but they aren't at all common or cheap.

I'm more of a cruiser these days than a stop light racer

My intention is to drive it and get a stronger box built, either a DK or AAP I believe they are the better ones

Other than that it's Subaru time

[Dueller]

More fun today, you can see where the boot bulges out a bit








Removed the boots from the gearbox shifter bush end, tried trimming them down but still jamming up

After some adjustments all is working, added in the 10mm spline gap, very tight shift pattern but free moving

Next time it's on the bench I will work it more to make it smoother, maybe grind an edge of the rubber ball to accommodate the boot seal. Trimming the seal didn't work as slips out so that's a no no. Had to use zip ties to hold it in place and give some protection.

Comedy aside to Aidan and Silverbullet, I'm overpowered so risking everything as always with this engine

Next problem was the clutch slave, it had popped free and wouldn't go back in. So pulled it off and that's every bit of a pig as the Wiki says. Popped it in the vice and cleaned it up then worked it loose, works brilliant now.



Strangely it had locked in the extended position but I've never put fluid through it, old age maybe

Refit tomorrow and go from there

[Aidan]

there's a spring inside so will go to full length when free and can bind there because of corrosion beyond the piston normal operating range