Best T25 configuration for off grid capacity & practicality

[ChrisTyas]

Hi,
plannning for upgrades for Holdsworth Villa 3 and trying to maximise off-grid capability, storage space, reliability & practicality.
Current plan is:
Gas
Gas hob
Gas fridge (3 way)
Gas water heater (Whale Expanse underslung on offside)
Gas space heater (Propex underslung on offside)
iVan air and water control panel
33litre spare wheel shaped propane tank in spare wheel holder at front (spare wheel on swing frame at rear or possibly on holder on front of van)
Electric
12v 608Ah lithium leisure battery under seat (nearside end)
Victron Multiplus-II 3000VA inverter/charger in large(!) wardrobe cupboard at side of engine bay
Victron Lynx Shunt VE.Can underseat
Victron Lynx distributor underseat
Victron Cerbo GX underseat & GC Touch 50 flush mount in cabin
Victron Smartsolar MPPT
Victron Orion-Tr DC-Dc Converter in engine bay
DASKraftwerk 420w solar on pop up roof (2x 1274x1020 210w flexi panels leaving 460mm full width for Starlink)
Water
New custom aluminium freshwater underslung tank in place of existing on nearside maximising capacity
Greywater drain to ground with demountable filter system
Shurflo Trail King water pump with Fiamma A20 Universal Expansion Tank underseat
Comms
Starlink v3 on DishyMultiMount on pop top (would prefer on storage rack in front of pop top but pop top when raised would obscure)
DishyNOAC 12v power supply for Starlink (or Starlink Mini and 12v PSU not needed)

All of the above gives me amazing off-grid capability (more than a week potentially for gas and electric) and true pull-up practicality (everything available constantly with no set-up apart from grey water filter if required) and I lose the following:
75% of underseat capacity
25% of wardrobe cupboard capacity
Starlink can be started and stopped in month blocks when required (I need work access pretty much constantly).
Gas double hob with no toaster beneath and larger (taller) fridge (with no freezer) below.

Comments? Criticisms? Better ideas?
Thanks,
Chris.


 

[Simon Baxter]

Sounds like overkill for a week away!
Any normal camper can do this without all that extra weight and complication.
I'd happily do a week easy in a standard westy.
Lived in a carpark for 5 months doing a winter season in a T3 panel van in the Alpes with not much more than a cooker, fridge and heater.
With a gas fridge not even sure why you need any solar.
Solar just seems a fashionable thing to do and probably more to do with power hungry fridges and the stupidity of inverters.

I'll await being flamed! 

[cobblers]

600ah is incredibly massive overkill. I had that much in my big camper van, with electric cooking and an electric immersion heater for hot water.
600ah was enough for a week of camping, cooking three meals a day (purely electric) and 4 or 5 good long hot showers.

I have 200AH in my T6 and that is more than enough to keep the fridge cool, run a diesel heater, cook some food on an induction hob, boil the kettle for a week for a couple of people. I use about 20ah per day. In summer a 120w solar panel is enough to keep the battery at 100% while running the fridge.

If you have gas for cooking, then you'll honestly be fine for a week with just 100ah of lithium - and that's ignoring the solar!


As for starlink, IMO it's a bit unnecessary too (even ignoring the politics of it) - I've camped all over the UK in pretty remote places and with a decent 4G router and external aerial, It's very rare that I don't have a good enough signal to stream HD video. And on the very few occasions that I don't, I'll read a book. It's nice to be disconnected sometimes.

[clift_d]

How "off-grid" are you planning, and how many people? It does sound like quite a lot of kit both in terms of weight, and things to go maintain. I'd be more tempted to strip it back and keep things simple, but maybe you're going for more of a home-from-home comforts thing.

[ChrisTyas]

Sounds like overkill for a week away!
Any normal camper can do this without all that extra weight and complication.
I'd happily do a week easy in a standard westy.
Lived in a carpark for 5 months doing a winter season in a T3 panel van in the Alpes with not much more than a cooker, fridge and heater.
With a gas fridge not even sure why you need any solar.
Solar just seems a fashionable thing to do and probably more to do with power hungry fridges and the stupidity of inverters.

I'll await being flamed! 

Hey Simon,
No flaming from here; a week off grid isn't the target; I know I'll be able to do a week minimum with that setup, will be interesting to see what it can actually do.
Starlink (v3, not mini) via a converter is fairly power hungry when running and I need to be able to work in it.
As much gear as possible will be gas (highest energy density) then 12v direct to minimise inverter losses but want to be able to use 240v with no restrictions, charge laptop fast etc.
It's as much about seeing what is possible, as it is building something to fit a certain requirement, hence 'Best T25 configuration for off grid capacity & practicality'.
I did 4 days in August in a borrowed with 200Ah lead acid and 100w cheap solar, boiling 240v kettle several times a day via (a cheap Chinese) inverter and running fridge etc and it (just) managed; 600Ah lithium will destroy that obviously. I don't mind laying out as everything is removable and transferrable to another van (battery is £1k (+VAT)).
Decent Solar appropriately designed and deployed is very relevant and 420w can potentially yield enough to top up battery completely every day (especially with fridge, hot water and heating on gas). Cheap solar panels without bypass diodes on each module are hardly worth bothering with; a reasonable sized leaf can completely kill output.
I'm more bothered about interior space and weight (in that order) and the planned 'incredibly massive overkill' doesn't impact either too much; the large propane tank weighs the same as everything else put together apart from the inverter but as mentioned above has higher energy density weight and £-wise, even taking into account the weight of the tank.

Chris.

[ChrisTyas]

How "off-grid" are you planning, and how many people? It does sound like quite a lot of kit both in terms of weight, and things to go maintain. I'd be more tempted to strip it back and keep things simple, but maybe you're going for more of a home-from-home comforts thing.

Outside of cleaning solar panels and filling gas tank, what other maintenance are you thinking of?

Chris.

[cobblers]

One thing I will add, all the Victron stuff has a very much non-zero current draw.

When I ran a full complement of victron stuff - Solar charger, 2x dc-dc, smartshunt and a Cerbo monitor setup, the quiescent draw of it all was about half an amp, constantly! It was using more power over the day than my fridge! I was using more power monitoring my battery, than I was actually using from the battery.

I stripped it back and went back to 1x dc-dc, sacked off the Cerbo and went to a bluetooth only smartshunt (without the LCD) and it's just as functional, and I can park the van indoors without having to put the trickle charger on it to avoid coming back after a fortnight to a dead battery.

[KateLovesPurple]

Another thing to think about, the spare wheel holder with a wheel in is part of the crumple zone. I'm not sure an lpg tank there would be the best idea?

[Mocki]

Another thing to think about, the spare wheel holder with a wheel in is part of the crumple zone. I'm not sure an lpg tank there would be the best idea?

It’s not , it’s just not part of the accident crash zone , nothing that is removable can be . Urban myth .

[clift_d]

Outside of cleaning solar panels and filling gas tank, what other maintenance are you thinking of?

It's not specifically about filters and the like, it just a sense that it's a lot of kit to manage and keep reliable when one of the key things to going off grid is to keep things simple. However, you've not mentioned anything about extra fuel storage so I'm guessing that maybe you won't be so far off-grid that it will be of issue.

If however your intention is to go further off the beaten track then I'd recommend a copy of Tom Shephard's Vehicle-Dependent Expedition Guide - it's out of print now but copies of older editions are readily available if a little bit pricey.

[Mocki]

Sounds like overkill for a week away!


I'll await being flamed! 

No flames here , no need for all that expense . A couple of hundred aH of decent battery , a couple of hundred watts of solar and three burner hob, a 90l of underslung water , 18l of underslung lpg and a eberspácher and i can stay off the grid for weeks, frankly the only thing that restricts the time is the water useage . I can’t have a three way fridge ( twin slider) so a 85l compressor fridge , but that means the LPG lasts weeks .
I have no inverter, everything is 12v , no need for anything mains , there are 12v chargers for everything these days , and if you really need 240vac get a power bank that you can charge off the 12v or solar .

[silverbullet]

I'd be starting from GVW* and the published kerb weight of the Holdsworth, then looking at the weight of the batteries and the large/heavy accessories (and water?) then seeing whats left for you, clothes, food etc.

*2500kg is all you get

[KateLovesPurple]

Another thing to think about, the spare wheel holder with a wheel in is part of the crumple zone. I'm not sure an lpg tank there would be the best idea?

It’s not , it’s just not part of the accident crash zone , nothing that is removable can be . Urban myth .

Fair enough, you learn something new every day! Still wouldn't fancy a gas tank at the front though.

[TwinTurbo]

Another thing to think about, the spare wheel holder with a wheel in is part of the crumple zone. I'm not sure an lpg tank there would be the best idea?

It’s not , it’s just not part of the accident crash zone , nothing that is removable can be . Urban myth .

Fair enough, you learn something new every day! Still wouldn't fancy a gas tank at the front though.

I don't think that's the intention.

"33litre spare wheel shaped propane tank in spare wheel holder at front (spare wheel on swing frame at rear or possibly on holder on front of van)"

Tank in normal spare wheel position, spare wheel on front or back?

[Aidan]

I'd be starting from GVW* and the published kerb weight of the Holdsworth, then looking at the weight of the batteries and the large/heavy accessories (and water?) then seeing whats left for you, clothes, food etc.

*2500kg is all you get

2wd 2390Kg GVW

2500kg GVW is Syncro spec, and most of the 110Kg is accounted for by the 4WD and mods for, so payload is not increased

Holdsworth furniture isn't light so a lot of the potential payload is already spoken for, I'd be surprised if all the stuff planned to be added will leave any payload other than a pair of socks and a pint of milk

Fill it up with fuel, gas and water as it is now and take it to a public weighbridge before doing anything else would be my advice.

UK will soon all be 4G or 5G apart from the most remote areas which have no signal, mast upgrades ongoing ready for end of 3G next year