2.1 DJ Coolant System Layout Help Needed

[Latenights]

I'm late to the party, but I understand you want to fit a DJ with digijet in place of a DF?
As a consequence you feel you need to also swap the cooling system? If so, that isn't strictly necessary. Another option is to just use the early cooling system on the DJ, and maybe re-purpose the carb choke heating circuit for the oil cooler instead. Alternatively you could opt to fit an external oil cooler. This would seem a much more straightforward and cost effective solution.
Just drill and tap the thermostat housing for your early DH & Syncro style screw in temp 2 sender.

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Thanks for the advice.

Is it a typo when you referred to drilling the thermostat housing of the DH? Or are you confusing my situation with that of @Robsey who has done as you suggest according to his thread where he's acquired parts from a DH to be able to use the early system and is still in the process of working on it?

If the DF cooling system can be used without needing to resort to parts from a DH then I'd be happy to consider it, but as I have most of the DJ system already I don't mind buying a few new hoses and the distribution junction.

If I use the early cooling system would it interfere with a late exhaust at all? I have a new stainless exhaust for the DJ (bought for the same price as a mild steel one at Just Kampers) because the current DJ exhaust is rotten at all the unions and the DF one isn't much prettier.

[Robsey]

If you are fitting the DJ with early cooling system, then you would need to find somewhere to fit the Temp II Sensor for the ECU.

I didn't find any DH parts, as they are not very common at all.
I drilled and tapped my DF thermostat housing.



And the cross engine pipe is just one that finally turned up on ebay after 8 months of searching.



If you have all the later exhaust and cooling parts on your engine, then I would use them.
Just to keep it easy.
Early cooling and late exhaust is a very tight fit for the early thermostat housing.



And the oil warmer / cooler pipework is also a challenge to cram in with the early water pump and thermostat in place.



Cost wise - probably not much difference between fitting early engine cooling parts and pipework,

And fitting later engine bay bleed rail, distribution tower and the front to rear cooling pipes for the radiator.

Personally, I would keep it simple.

There is nothing stopping you from fitting hoses that are made to reduce from one size to another.
There are plenty in ebay that would allow you to jnterface your early pipes to the stubs on the distribution tower etc.

In fact, that is probably the quickest and easiest solutions.
Once you've sorted your bleed rail and distribution tower.

[Latenights]

If you are fitting the DJ with early cooling system, then you would need to find somewhere to fit the Temp II Sensor for the ECU.

I didn't find any DH parts, as they are not very common at all.
I drilled and tapped my DF thermostat housing.
And the cross engine pipe is just one that finally turned up on ebay after 8 months of searching.

If you have all the later exhaust and cooling parts on your engine, then I would use them.
Just to keep it easy.
Early cooling and late exhaust is a very tight fit for the early thermostat housing.
And the oil warmer / cooler pipework is also a challenge to cram in with the early water pump and thermostat in place.

Cost wise - probably not much difference between fitting early engine cooling parts and pipework,

And fitting later engine bay bleed rail, distribution tower and the front to rear cooling pipes for the radiator.

Personally, I would keep it simple.

There is nothing stopping you from fitting hoses that are made to reduce from one size to another.
There are plenty in ebay that would allow you to jnterface your early pipes to the stubs on the distribution tower etc.

In fact, that is probably the quickest and easiest solutions.
Once you've sorted your bleed rail and distribution tower.

I've been lurking the forums here for years since buying my van pretty much as a running shell a few months before the first lockdown. No points for guessing why she slipped to the bottom of my priority list since then.

What's brilliant about this place is that there are so many people with such extensive knowledge of so many variants of these vans and the minutiae in the differences. What's even better is that people such as @Robsey post their experience of working on the vans and finding their way through problems so that it's almost a how-to guide (many of these have ended up in the wiki.)

For me, learning from someone else's experience is far better than suffering the pain of making my own mistakes (which I will inevitably make anyway!) I was edging towards using the later system for simplicity because of the hurdles that @Robsey experienced in his thread, and having heard it from the horse's mouth of someone who's taken the other path and kept the early system I'm even more minded to follow his advice. Drilling into my engine and hoping I find a specific part one day isn't for me if I can solve the problem with readlily available parts and a hose and some jubilee clips!

It's not that I don't appreciate others weighing in with their own experiences, but as I'm going to be doing a lot of this work myself simplicity is key.

@Robsey, I hope you finally get your early cooling system running - sounds like you're pretty close now. When I get my new engine in the van and running maybe we can compare which was the better road to travel?



 

[ajsimmo]

I have just been re-reading your initial posts on the thread , and noticed this: "Fortunately (well, for the bus at least, not my bank account) I’m having a new LPG system that I’m told will work with the digijet system "
Do you know what system your installer is planning to fit? I'm fearing it might be a full sequential multipoint injection system, which isn't a good match with digijet. I spent several years converting WBXs to LPG, so if you would like any advice before spending your cash, I and others would be happy to help.

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[Latenights]

I have just been re-reading your initial posts on the thread , and noticed this: "Fortunately (well, for the bus at least, not my bank account) I’m having a new LPG system that I’m told will work with the digijet system "
Do you know what system your installer is planning to fit? I'm fearing it might be a full sequential multipoint injection system, which isn't a good match with digijet. I spent several years converting WBXs to LPG, so if you would like any advice before spending your cash, I and others would be happy to help.

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That would be very much appreciated. I was referred to lpgautosupplies.co.uk by the guy who is supplying the rebuilt engine. Spoke with Mick about the lpg kit as I was originally just going to get an uprated mixer suitable for the DJ, but he said he has had some success with injection systems on WBX, while others have been a complete failure.

His suggestion was to test the resistance of the injectors, which are nominally 16ohms when I measured them. He said this should be fine as this is the upper end of the scale for the kits that have worked on the WBX in his experience.

Apparently some WBX injectors have a resistance below 4 ohms which causes the problems.

I know nothing and am trusting the advice of those with experience of this particular engine.

I'm waiting for details of the kit that Mick recommends, and if this means anything to you I'd be really grateful for your advice on it.

Or if you know of any kits that actually work with the digijet system having tried them yourself I'd be happy to shop around for one of those.

Thanks!

[ajsimmo]

Ah, ok, that's a good sign. Mick is a good guy, and lpgautosupplies are what used to be called Tinley Tech. They supplied almost all of my conversion parts, so Mick will know what I preferred to use.

Let us know what he recommends and I'll see if I agree . The main problem is that if it's any kit that piggybacks off the petrol injection signal and translates it to LPG injection durations, it will be dependent on the digijet running optimally. Even at its best, digijet is crude and dumb, with no feedback system. It's relying on a passive fixed map with few variables, and it's also over 30 years old so probably not at its best. Multipoint is great, as long as the system it's emulating is great. Like any computer, you put rubbish in, you get rubbish out. If it has a problem, now or in the future, so does your LPG. That's one reason why I prefer a standalone single point system - even if your petrol system packs up completely, you can still get home on LPG.
The best results I had were with a Blos mixer, but unfortunately they are no longer available new. This is what I still run on my own DJ.

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[Latenights]

Ah, ok, that's a good sign. Mick is a good guy, and lpgautosupplies are what used to be called Tinley Tech. They supplied almost all of my conversion parts, so Mick will know what I preferred to use.

Let us know what he recommends and I'll see if I agree . The main problem is that if it's any kit that piggybacks off the petrol injection signal and translates it to LPG injection durations, it will be dependent on the digijet running optimally. Even at its best, digijet is crude and dumb, with no feedback system. It's relying on a passive fixed map with few variables, and it's also over 30 years old so probably not at its best. Multipoint is great, as long as the system it's emulating is great. Like any computer, you put rubbish in, you get rubbish out. If it has a problem, now or in the future, so does your LPG. That's one reason why I prefer a standalone single point system - even if your petrol system packs up completely, you can still get home on LPG.
The best results I had were with a Blos mixer, but unfortunately they are no longer available new. This is what I still run on my own DJ.

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I don't know much about LPG other than it's a little less powerful compared to petrol but costs significantly less (for now) so any advice is greatly received. Having a second recommendation for Mick is very reassuring.

The kit that Mick has recommended is the following:

https://lpgautosupplies.co.uk/shop/lpg- ... it-34-cyl/

The description is pretty brief so I have no idea what this offers over a new mixer on my current system. I haven't had a chance to get in touch with Mick yet to pick his brains.

Any thoughts on the pros or cons of this system would be very much appreciated

[ajsimmo]

I wouldn't fit that on a DJ with digijet, mainly for the reasons given. I have removed similar kits in the past and converted back to single point. Customers have then reported improved smooth running, more power, and better economy.
Maybe (and this is certainly possible) Mick knows a trick or two to get multipoint to run well on a WBX, but I've had more problems than it's worth.
If you were fitting an aftermarket modern engine management system with sequential injection and closed loop feedback systems then that is absolutely the right LPG kit to go with it.

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[Latenights]

I wouldn't fit that on a DJ with digijet, mainly for the reasons given. I have removed similar kits in the past and converted back to single point. Customers have then reported improved smooth running, more power, and better economy.
Maybe (and this is certainly possible) Mick knows a trick or two to get multipoint to run well on a WBX, but I've had more problems than it's worth.
If you were fitting an aftermarket modern engine management system with sequential injection and closed loop feedback systems then that is absolutely the right LPG kit to go with it.

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Thanks for the advice.

To clarify, a single point kit would be one mixer, which my van currently has between the air filter and carb, and I assume on a DJ would go between air filter and plenum chamber?

That would be the most cost effective, though I'd then need advice on how to fit a mixer in there because from what I understand the air filter has a very specific location due to its fixing lugs, so I don't know how I could shunt things along to fit it in. I have seen photos of this on a digijet system so know its doable. The trouble is knowing how!

To be fair to Mick, he's been upfront about the difficulties with WBX engines and seems very approachable. I don't think he's just looking to sell more expensive kit so I'll ask him if he has any specific tweaks to get things running smoothly.

Have you ever had a multipoint kit work well with a digijet yourself?

I know I'll regret asking this, but you mention an aftermarket modern engine management system with sequential injection and closed loop feedback systems. I know this will doubtless be very painful for my bank balance, but can you offer an example that I could look into please?

[T3luestar]

You can the mixer fitted to my DJ here, just underneath the two oversized jubilee clip's!

[ajsimmo]

This sort of thing...
https://www.mansispeed.com/product-page/ms-700-efi-kit

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[Latenights]

This image is on Itchyfeet's wiki on the DJ, and I remember seeing it in a post where I thought someone said that the red ring is the LPG mixer, hence thinking I'd have a job getting it in.

On closer reading, the description of the photo clearly says the mixer is before the AFM and backfire valve, and having seen the LPG hoses in your picture it's now clear that the one I'd seen previously has hoses going to the same location.

I'm so glad you pointed this out because I'd have been measuring in the wrong place to get the size needed for my new mixer if I go with a single point!

I'm now hoping that my air filter box is easy enough to open up so I can measure the diameter of the connection I have to join into. Unfortunately my van and all its bits are 3 miles away in a garage lockup and so every little query takes much more effort to investigate than it should!

[ajsimmo]

https://lpgautosupplies.co.uk/shop/lpg- ... -flow-mtr/

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[T3luestar]

This is the type of mixer that's fitted between the AFM (pictured below) and the air box.
https://lpgautosupplies.co.uk/shop/lpg- ... -flow-mtr/

[T3luestar]

I recently seen this setup to make room for the backfire valve and mixer.