Can't find that fuse! - cigarette lighter

[4gearwonder]

Hi all. Any help with this would be much appreciated as running out places to look now! - have been on Wiki/Haynes manual and another VW van site.

Van is : Is '84 left hand drive Bilbo camper.

Problem is: Cigarette lighter - and radio too - has now stopped working - had plugged something in then I just packed up after a few minutes - can live without the radio if need be, but can't use the sat nav on a long journey to keep charged or know where we are going. 

I've checked every fuse that I can access to / know of. All the ceramic fuses in the block (12 of them - left of steering wheel), none of these are visibly broken. Removed the steering column cowl and there's another 5 there, none of these are broken either. Checked the 4 fuses under the driver's seat, they are not broken either. 

HAYNES Manual says it's should be fuse number 8 in the block of 12. Then another VW site says it should be fuse no 3?

Every fuse I've mentioned above are all intact / not broken, so just wondering if there is yet another one hidden somewhere?!

Many thanks in advance if there are any replies to this one.  


Brian


 

[Mocki]

It’s a common thing for the cigar lighter socket and the radio to be rerouted to take power from the leisure battery on campers , try looking near the leisure battery ??

[4gearwonder]

Thanks for your reply there Mocki, appreciated; I've just found your posting too from 26 June 2020 on 'Radiator fan not working' where you'd kindly took the trouble to list all the fuses/relays.

As you/it showed there, it's saying the same as the HAYNES Manual, that it's an 8 amp fuse and no 8. As said tho, that's not blown and I did check the ones under the seat; I'm assuming that's where the leisure battery fuses are unless there's more else where still? 

Cheers.
 

[Smiffo]

Thanks for your reply there Mocki, appreciated; I've just found your posting too from 26 June 2020 on 'Radiator fan not working' where you'd kindly took the trouble to list all the fuses/relays.

As you/it showed there, it's saying the same as the HAYNES Manual, that it's an 8 amp fuse and no 8. As said tho, that's not blown and I did check the ones under the seat; I'm assuming that's where the leisure battery fuses are unless there's more else where still? 

Cheers.
 

If not under your bench seat ( like mine ) or next to your leisure battery, it’s possible its an inline fuse under the dash next to the back of the radio?

Pop out the ashtray on the dash, and have a peer down in there. You will be able to see both the cigarette feed and radio feed from there


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[Robsey]

I think fuse number changes a little dependent upon model year and country of sale.

My notes say that the Cigarette lighter should be on fuse 8, but some diagrams say radio on fuse 8 or 9.

Fuses 8 and 9 are linked anyway, by a copper strip.

I know you have checked the torpedo fuses, but did you check the wires (female spades) for being securely attached behind the fuse panel.

I have just done a thread about the early fusebox.
I don't know if it helps any..

viewtopic.php?t=177047

[4gearwonder]

Thanks so much for your replies Smiffo and Mocki, much appreciated. 

I've just shone a torch and under the dash board tho - as you said Smiffo - and to the right side of the gear stick, there's another collection of relays plus 2 more fuses  So keeping fingers crossed, it might be one of these? 

Thing is tho, the 2 fuses are encased in a clear plastic cover - found 2 others like this to the left of the steering wheel too previously - but I just can't / or don't know how this cover comes off to be able to check the fuses? Not easy to get to either, but I've tried flipping off with finger nails etc, but just not budging. 

If anyone's familiar with this, any ideas please if these are sealed units - ie the cover's stuck on - or any other way the cover can be taken off to access the fuses?

Thanks a lot. 

 

[R0B]

[4gearwonder]

Thanks for that Rob, picture always helps for sure! I haven't got access to the van until tomorrow to take a photo, but 
looking online, the cover looks like the attached here. Being able to see from this image too, looks
like it prises off from the side now I'm guessing, with a blade or something? If anyone can confirm tho,
that be appreciated too. 

Thanks a lot.

B

[Robsey]

Looking at that photo, it unclips from the ends.

The only way to know which fuse feeds them, is to trace the wires back from the radio and cigarette lighter.

[4gearwonder]

Appreciate that last post Robsey, thanks.

I found those x2 extra other fuses tho that which were the right side of the gear stick/under the dash and with that plastic cover on etc - was an easy flip off after all and both were red 16 amp fuses. One of them had blown tho and was building hopes up then that might be it!...and replaced it and then...nothing! No change/power still to the fag lighter or radio.

Managed to see the wires tho coming from lighter - photo attached - One brown, one red and seems none of these feed into
those x2 new fuses I found/mentioned tho. The red goes into the black connector - photo attached - and the brown goes
close to it but not into the block. They both seem to disappear and heading towards the left hand side and assuming to either
the 12 fuse block, any of the other fuses around the steering column or under the chair/leisure battery. I've only had 45 mins to look at this as it was in work's lunch time and not to be able to fully follow the wires and see where they truly go? Will try that later.

Thing is tho, all those fuses I mentioned - total of 25 so far - are all showing 'not blown' and intact. 

Bottom line then? If all fuses are okay and intact, could the fag lighter have shorted / blown internally - got to be 38 years old now like the van - but not blown a fuse so that's why it's still not working - inc radio which may feed of that line too??

Once again, any thoughts alway appreciated amigos...

Thanks.

[Robsey]

Okay -
Red is your "battery live"

Brown is to chassis / ground.

In your description, you say that the red goes in AND out of the cigar lighter.

That infers that regardless of whether the cigar lighter is broken, the radio still has a live feed.

Although it looks like one red and one brown to the lighter.

The black connector looks like a typical ISO connector for the radio - 8 pins for speakers and the other 8 for radio power, ground and other control functions.

The brown wires can often be the cause of a dead circuit.
So just as important to ensure that they do indeed either connect to a grounding point, or they are plugged securely onto one of the earth crowns on the left sidewall above the fusebox.

I am not quite sure why you would need 25 fuses.
Seems a bit over complicated.

Granted there are 25 or so on my CE1 fusebox, but that includes extras.

Worst comes to worst, you could just graft in your own red wire between the cigar lighter, radio and the fusebox.

Silly thought here. -
Have you tried checking for live with ignition on and also with engine running.
Just in case the fuse-fettishist moved them onto ignition live, or X-contact circuit instead.

[Robsey]

For clarity on that radio ISO connector...

Yellow wire is ignition live.
Red is battery live.
Black is ground. (Common colour on third-party devices).

On some radios, you need to swap the red and yellow wires around.
Red is for radio memory.
Yellow is for turning on / off with the ignition key.

Looking at your image
Using non-VW numbering
Front to back (nearest in photo is front)
Right to left.

1 - empty
2 - yellow - ignition live
3 - empty (often illumination)
4 - black - chassis earth
Next row
5 - empty - sometimes speed dependent volume
6 - empty
7 - blue/white in your photo?? -aerial / amplifier 12v out
8 - red - battery live.

The two rows (other plug) behind are for the speakers.
1 - purple/black - rear right -
2 - white/black - front right -
3 - grey/black - front left -
4 - green/black - rear left -

5 - purple - rear right +
6 - white - front right +
7 - grey - front left +
8 - green - rear left +

[4gearwonder]

Thanks for taking so much trouble there Robsey to list this lot, that's much appreciated mate

Just to clarify tho - as I might have confused? - but it seems - going by the photo I'd managed to get of the 
fag lighter unit - there's a RED lead coming off the lighter - or would that be feeding it - and that goes down into that black connector block - in the other photo - and then it comes out off that black connector which then seems to be heading towards the left hand side to where the 12 fuse block are.

The BROWN wire too is also coming just off the cigarette lighter and that seems to be going /heading to the same place as well - the 12 fuse block are - but is no doubt going to the earthing crown by the 12 fuse block I'm pretty sure.

Car electrics is another language to me tho unfortunately!, but thanks to your help, perhaps I might have to  take to a garage and see if they can resolve or would do? I've just ordered a new cigarette lighter too from Just campers just incase there's a fault there but be good to change too, I'm thinking. Thanks for you help tho amigo, appreciated!

[4gearwonder]

...PS. Yes, did try the lighter again with the engine running! Cheers.

[Mocki]

So have we established the leisure battery isnt powering these ?
I suspect the power isnt going to be coming from the main fuse board , that wiring isnt original