Removing a stuck Hydraulic Valve Lifter / Tappet?

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Does anyone have advice on how to remove a stuck Hydraulic Valve Lifter / Cam Follower? (https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/hydraulic- ... etrol.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I was able to pull one out with my finger but the other seems pretty stuck! The cir-clip at the top has snapped / come away on both also so they need replacing, feels pretty simple if I could get the other one out. He says...

I was replacing a set of leaky push rod tubes yesterday and noticed some issues so I've taken the tubes, rods and rocker off to take a look and it all looking a little ropey. Adjustors are damaged on the ends, etc.





Feel like these could do with a replacement also. How i've not taken note of the noises it's been making



Guessing this won't be an easy fix...



I saw there are caps you can get to go over the end, would this work? Or better to take the whole thing out? If possible with the engine still in place

Along the lines of: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEETLE-Valve ... 2001512483" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks in advance!

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Going to give one of these a go: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neilsen-Heav ... 2535756622" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Will update with the results once it arrives

[937carrera]

Have a read around here

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=152393&p=8205491

Magnetic removal is one method

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Thanks, hadn't spotted that post but then 14 pages into a 23 page thead might be a little well hidden.

Re Magnets:

I've given that a go with a telescopic magnet tool and a couple of stronger smaller magnet on the end of a socket extension but no luck there. It really feels wedged in. I'm thinking a set of needle nosed pliers with a 90 degree end could work until I spotted the tool mentioned above.

Will get reading on that post... Thanks again

Peter

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After much research I was able to find that an Internal Bearing Puller was going to be my friend. I was able to borrow one from a friend at a bike shop and got the stubborn one out first go!



You can see the damage to the end here, i'm guessing it had flared a little and was causing too much friction to pull out.



I have a fresh set of Hydraulic Valve Lifter / Cam Follower arriving from Brickwerks so thought I may as well remove the other 2 from the same side. One was moving freely and the other was very stiff even under pressure. These both need the puller to remove them also, which was a little tricky as they were all still in one piece with the cir-clip attached so less to grab onto at the end.



This doesn't look great...



My next question would be, is there a depth the new valve should be inserted to? I feel the new set will need a small amount of persuading to go back in (thinking a socket and gentle tapping) . I worry about pushing them in to far? Is this possible?


Thanks

[Mocki]

Don’t take my word for it , for I’m no expert, but I’m quite certain they cannot go in too far , as they are under tension from the push rod and therefore the rocker arm springs against the cam

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Thanks Steve, as you say the cam is on the other side so I would hope they can't just drop through. I'll use some calipers to measure the other side to get a rough idea from the external edge.

[937carrera]

My next question would be, is there a depth the new valve should be inserted to?

By valve I assume you mean hydraulic tappet ?

Firstly, they operate against the camshaft, so you cannot push them in too far.

Secondly, the hydraulic tappet should move smoothly and easily in the crankcase. No force should be required

Check the length of those pushrods, replace bent ones, and make sure they are the correct ones for a hydraulic engine. I suggest those rocker arms and adjusting screws need replacement too. Valves too if you have the time

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By valve I assume you mean hydraulic tappet ? - Yes, sorry keep finding new names from them so getting mixed up.

Firstly, they operate against the camshaft, so you cannot push them in too far. - Great, as I thought

Secondly, the hydraulic tappet should move smoothly and easily in the crankcase. No force should be required - Hmm ok, one did come out with just my finger pulling it. Which would suggest something bad (real bad) has happened to 'expand' the crankcase making the other 3 holes tighter? Saying that when they were in the holes they did slide back and forth, just the last bit to remove them took some force.

This was my guide: https://youtu.be/HzbqFpksE7k?t=92" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Not on a VW but they took a small amount of force to remove.

Check the length of those pushrods, replace bent ones, and make sure they are the correct ones for a hydraulic engine. I suggest those rocker arms and adjusting screws need replacement too. Valves too if you have the time - One of the valves needs doing for sure as the end is chipped. I have pushrods (https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/pushrod-t3 ... bx-ct.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), 4 tappets and adjuster screws (https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/tappet-adj ... -10mm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) on the way so hopefully that will help me move a little further along

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Another update...

I've installed a set of 4 new hydraulic tappets to the driver side of the engine. They slipped right back in with only a small amount of pressure which was great. Left soaking overnight in oil also

- Replaced 4 push rod tubes with aluminum telescopic ones and replaced the bent push rod for a fresh one. I have one spare for the future

- Rocker arm back on with 4 new screw adjusters. Waiting on a gap measure so I can dial them in. Set them to just touching right now until that arrives. Won't be driving it until that is done anyhow. Will use this as a guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQGEjmUL4Kg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- A new rocker cover and cork gasket

- Gave it an oil change and new filter with 15W40, had Halfords oil in there before and the difference in sound it pretty noticeable so glad that's a lesson learnt going forward.

It started right up and sounded great, alot quieter than I think it ever has been. From what i've learnt over the past days I can hear a small amount of tapping coming from the left side of the engine so i'm guessing that is the tappets on that side, good to know the procedure for the future. When I get around to doing those.

Thanks for any advide & pointers, all really useful!
Peter

[937carrera]

Waiting on a gap measure so I can dial them in. Set them to just touching right now until that arrives. Won't be driving it until that is done anyhow.

Don't make that mistake.

You have hydraulic tappets, there is no free play, get to touch and then 1 1/2 or 2 turns (factory manual) to set.

On solid tappets (the old way) then there is a gap that you need a feeler gauge for.

Look on the wiki or do a search if you need more info.

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Oh perfect! Thanks will adjust them later today

Here's the post from the Wiki if anyone is looking: https://ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Bentley (both Bus and Vanagon versions) say the adjustment should be two clockwise turns after the valve adjusting screw makes contact with the valve stem but some folks think the adjustment should be 1/2 turn. If the lifter was dry and you were to preload the lifter 1/2 turn, that's about 0.015" (0.38mm) movement of the piston inside while 1-2 turns would be 0.030" - 0.060" (0.76mm - 1.52mm). I will explain how much to adjust the lifters later...

If you only adjust them by 0.5 turns the lifter won't compress enough and you'll upset the rocker geometry accelerating valve train wear. In practice what happens when you don't preload the lifter enough is it will take too much time to pressurize and you won't get enough valve lift. This will cause the engine to labor and sound noisy. The noise is often heard coming from the camshaft (center of the engine).

Two turns of the 10mm valve adjusting screw with 1mm threads will preload the lifter ~1.5mm (remember the 1:1.3 rocker ratio). This is about half the distance that the piston inside the lifter can travel. If you use too little preload you will stress the lock ring that holds the lifter together when the lifter socket maks contact with it. If you use too much preload, the plunger may bottom out at first, then as the lifter pumps up to compensate the valve may not close properly and compression, performance and valve life will suffer.

How about 1.5 turns instead of 2? In practice, this seems to be as acceptable as the factory recommendation and a feel good insurance against the ills that other people have experienced over the years following the factory recommendation. In my experience, 1.5 turns of adjustment after the engine has run for many miles remains around 1.5 turns. Sometimes the adjustment is 1/8 of a turn more or less but you will be in the ball park and the engine will continue to run properly thanks to the flexibility of the design. The fact that the setting can exceed the initial adjustment supports the idea that 1.5 turns is better than 2.0 turns."

[937carrera]

Good

That's not our Wiki by the way, though Ratwell is a good source.

Look at the top of your screen, redaing from the left | Club 80-90 | Wiki | Archive, you get the idea

or shortcut https://wiki.club8090.co.uk/index.php/Main_Page

[itchyfeet]

Adjustment 15-9

it's a 2.1 manual but this part is the same as is a lot of it.

http://syncrosport.com/info/manual/VW_T ... hanics.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like the internal bearing puller idea

Going to steal your picture

you need to replace any bent pushrods, this happens because people don't get the pushrods centralised on install, they sit on the edge of the lifter and damage occurs on first startup. get a torch and look down the tube before startup or better still buy a USB endoscope cheap as chips.

P1090083 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

[ajsimmo]

I once had a stuck one that had mushroomed over a tad due to weird wear against the cam. I made a "reach-around tool" that went down the adjacent bore, rotated it onto the back of the follower and slide hammered it back towards me. It came out eventually and only left a tiny score on the bore that cleaned up ok. Phew!
Unfortunately I lost it in the move, or it's still at my storage unit, so no pics. It wasn't pretty anyway, but it worked.

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