Ignition Switch or Starter Motor

[Tobias13]

Morn all,

Van was struggling to crank last week, seemed to be no pattern.

So, when I turn the key all the lights come on but then when I turn to crank, nothing!! this may happen several times and then she will fire.

Have been told it could be the ignition switch or starter, how do I go about testing and in what order?

any advice greatly appreciated..

one other thing, I have an LPG conversion and it happens on both fuel sources.

Thanks

[itchyfeet]

remove the cowling off around ignition switch
remove plug from switch
make a temporary connection from big red wire to big red/black wire, this is what your switch does to crank starter.
don't expect it to start, this is just a starter motor cranking test.

[Tobias13]

great, so if the starter cranks then the finger points to the switch?

just hope its a true test as it starts intermittently.

[itchyfeet]

correct, if it is the same it probably rules out switch.

Probably because you could have a faulty switch and a faulty something else but it's the first step.

do that and report back.

[Tobias13]

thanks mate, muchos!!

[Mr Bean]

Same thing happened to me some time ago and it turned out to be an open circuit on the strange fat connector terminal ring gismo at the starter. It looked perfectly clean and tight but when I clambered under the van and held multimeter probes between the stud and connector I got 12 Volts when my mate operated the starter from the cab. I couldn't believe how it couldn't make connection initially but it worked when I cleaned it up with emery.
CS

[CovKid]

So true. Even with the nut tight you can still get an open circuit. Originally it had a rubber cover over it but invariably it ends up missing over time and as they don't generally come with a new starter, the connection is prone to everything the road can throw at it. Secondly, the braided cable that disappears inside the starter (and where the current should go) can fray or even break away inside. Big fat soldering iron (Maplins do a 100 watt one for about £15) will sort that.

I say it a lot, but way too many starters get exchanged that could be fixed very easily.

[Tobias13]

Nice one guys,

Can't get to it until sat so will have a fiddle and let you know how I get on!

[itchyfeet]

My take on maintenance and fault finding is to work through the basics but have tested spares to swap out.
It makes fault finding quick and easy.
For example starter motors come up for sale often for peanuts, pick one up swap it over to check it works, then you have a known good spare.
Don't wait until you need parts, pick them up cheap when you don't need them

[Mr Bean]

My take on maintenance and fault finding is to work through the basics but have tested spares to swap out.
It makes fault finding quick and easy.
For example starter motors come up for sale often for peanuts, pick one up swap it over to check it works, then you have a known good spare.
Don't wait until you need parts, pick them up cheap when you don't need them

I agree.
I was poking around in the awkward shaped space in front of the R/H rear wheel arch where I keep my running spares and stumbled on a working I think sixty Amp alternator stashed there when I installed the current ninety Amp job (clever pun what!). Not too sure that it is wise to carry that much though as I do worry about the lack of ABS and general age of said machine. So nice to simply hand the AA man the hard to get part on say a Sunday afternoon though.
CS

[CovKid]

A rudimentary check of the starter (needs to come off) will tell you much. Pay particular attention to the condition of connectors/cables that supply it too. You should be able to undo screws on end cap, slide the C-clip off and with cap removed you can check braided cable, commutator and brushes. Any issues there can be sorted at home and they're not much to buy. Worst scenario probably knackered solenoid but you can get those for £30.

Agree with Itchy on buying spares when you don't need them or at least well in advance of when you plan to fit them. I pay very little for parts (in comparison) by doing exactly that. Bought a new rad about a month ago for £60 based on good timing but waited two years for that deal. I just kept looking. The same one at well-known VW parts sellers is twice that. Nowt worse than having to fall on the mercy of a tyre or parts place when you need one there and then. Its partly about knowing whats good, but equally down to scouring everywhere and perfect timing I'd say.

[Tobias13]

didn't manage to have a good look the weekend, am thinking about everyone's advice with regard to parts etc, also I'm away the weekend and don't want to end up with bits on the floor and no moveable motor.

one thing I did notice is that when it decides not to crank I can hear a single click coming from the engine bay!!

will have a good look after the weekend if I make it back!!

thanks for all the input!!

[itchyfeet]

Single click is probably the LPG solenoid, turn the key to stage 1 and lpg will click, then wait until thats done before you turn to stage 2 cranking and see if it clicks again, if so thats the starter solenoid.

[Tobias13]

wicked, I can hear the lpg kicking in and then the click from the engine bay is when im trying to crank.

had the LPG serviced etc last year so hopefully that's ok and it the other starter.

nice info thanks, pointing me towards the fault a lot easier!!

[itchyfeet]

OK so there is a high chance that its one of these.
1 bad earth from gearbox to body
2 corrosion from starter to gearbox giving bad earth
3 bad connection/ corrosion of main fat starter cable at starter end.
4 bad earth at battery to body
5 braided wire from starter solenoid to starter has corroded bady/broken