Whirrrrrrr......stop

[pleasestartnow]

Hi all,

I have an intermittent starting issue becoming more frequent in the last month or so. Basically turn the key, wait for the yellow light for the plugs to go off, go to start and I get a whirr noise (guessing it is the alternator spinning) and no start. Go for a second start and it starts up no hassle. I have replaced all the glow plugs, bus bar, fuel filter and still get the same issue. It doesn't happen every time maybe 1 in 5 starts. I can hear the solenoid click every time I turn the key. So I am just wondering is this a lazy starter motor? or could it be the relay for the glow plugs sticking maybe? Any other ideas what it could be?

1.6D 1y engine

I am just afraid I will go away some day and it just wont start.

[Oldiebut goodie]

From the description it sounds like the solenoid is not throwing the gear into the flywheel, just far enough for the contact to be made for the starter to spin though. Sometimes caused by light rust forming on the shaft due to high humidity and lack of use, sometimes dirt on the shaft also. Maybe low voltage due to dirty connection on the solenoid but my money would be on the first.
Nothing to do with glow plugs or their relay, bus bar, fuel filter.
Where is this relay that you are hearing click?

[pleasestartnow]

Hi OBG, always seems to be you that answers my questions haha, thanks as usual.

It was the relay glow plug in the box at the back left of engine bay 443 911 261. So if its nothing to do with plus, bus bar, fuel filter then it wont be anything to do with that relay. When I was changing all them I was more hoping it was a simple solution like plugs were just old and not getting to temp to fire up the engine.

Voltage on the battery at rest is 13v and I can hear the solenoid click in each time so I say you are right with the first option. Would I be looking at about to being heading down the path of a new/refurb starter and solenoid or just replacing starter solenoid do you think? Is there any diagrams/detailed explanations around so I can understand fully what you are saying for solenoid not throwing the gear into the flywheel, I never knew the solenoid had a n affect on the gears as well.

[pleasestartnow]

Just watched this video and now know what you mean I think. Hope others might find this video useful, not sure if it is the same starter as in the van though but still. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJM2veUNBc0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Oldiebut goodie]

It would be the voltage at the solenoid terminal that needs to be checked.
Diagram purloined from t'web:



The gear is thrown to the right by the fork when the solenoid is actuated, if there is slight rust/dirt on the shaft it can stop the gear from travelling far enough to the right where it meshes with the teeth on the flywheel.
At the same time as the gear is thrown forward the solenoid makes a contact to supply power to the starter which causes the starter to turn - in your case it is happening just before the gear has meshed with the flywheel where it has stuck and this is the whirring noise that you are hearing.

I quite often have the same thing with my boat engine starter due to the salt air causing the commencement of corrosion on any parts not oiled/greased/painted etc. You are not supposed to lubricate the shaft though as dirt will stick causing exactly the same problem. I just live with it knowing that it isn't a major fault and it will connect after a couple of attempts. It is impossible to hermetically seal a starter so the chances of this happening are high especially if the starter isn't operated daily. (My view is that the older the starter the less chance of this happening due to wear on the shaft and gear means that the fit of the gear is not so tight so any rust/dirt doesn't have such a dramatic effect.)
We have been experiencing quite high humidity in the UK recently so it may just be this slight rust (it is only a very thin film that you can just see when stripped down).
Any clearer?

[pleasestartnow]

Ya man spot on, I use the van as my everyday car as well so its definitely not lack of use . As usual appreciate your time, will check the solenoid voltage tonight anyway and will look into stripping the starter off in the next week or so and check for any rust or dirt etc. Any idea where else I could get a new starter if I need to besides brickwerks (out of stock) or justkampers as they seem more expensive? Just browsing the usual sites on the internet, might have a look and see if I can see what model number etc is on the one in place at the moment as well tonight.

Thanks again OBG appreciate your help

[Oldiebut goodie]

Check the voltage at the solenoid between the terminal and the starter body and also between the terminal and the vehicle body - if there is any difference your earth connections are suspect and will need cleaning up and re-making.
I doubt very much that you need a new starter motor!