Instead of welding...gluing?

Post by **Reverend** » 17 May 2016, 13:32

I've heard mixed ideas about bodypanel glues and i wonder what you think? I need to replace some tin in my syncro in areas that do not interfere the structural integrity of the car (floor, side of the body etc) Literally have 0 welding skills, but i heard that many uses bodypanel glue to attach sheet metal with good results. Any yay or naysayers?

Post by **boatbuilder** » 17 May 2016, 14:18

I looked into it but went for welding in the end. Easier to hold things in place properly with welds. It would be tricky trying to pull a panel into position just with glue alone.

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Post by **clift_d** » 17 May 2016, 15:29

AFAIK the T25 body is a structural shell and so any repairs of a reasonable size could be considered structural, in which case my understanding is that the MOT says you can only glue where you're replacing like for like.

Post by **Reverend** » 17 May 2016, 18:13

Size of the replaced panels are around 15cm x 15cm, i wonder does those affect the structural integrity.. plus it will be hidden under the paint

Post by **itchyfeet** » 17 May 2016, 18:55

I repaired some rusty window surrounds with some sheet metal and CSK M3 clinch studs, then filled over.
You could use CSK rivets or screws (shown in first pic just held with pan head screws while cutting to size.

Still looks OK several years later but the filler line has some cracks
If I did it now I would pay somebody to weld them but I was on an extreme budget back then.
They can be removed and welded any time.

Post by **Reverend** » 17 May 2016, 20:18

Did you use 2K glue? As far as i know (or have heard of) 2K is better in paints and in glues, to its durability of all sorts of chemicals and so on. Mine is also a extreme budget.. Im planning to use SikaPower 4720, quite affordable (40€ a tube) and advert says "strong as steel"

Post by **Ant-t** » 17 May 2016, 23:34

Have seen some very creative body repairs with sheet steel, unibond products and chemical metal, they produce a strong repair but I would only use similar to patch small areas of panels.

Post by **bluebus1987** » 18 May 2016, 16:51

I just cant realy see how you could use it for the sort of repairs a T3 generaly needs. Large flatish panels with a flange or seam that overlays I can imagine, but it would have to be a near perfect fit to begin with. If you want to do it well, I'd pick up a secondhand mig and have a little practice first.

Post by **Bigjcc55** » 18 May 2016, 18:51

Image1463596824.683252.jpg

Image1463596868.207116.jpg

These were bonded on to save welding as I didn't want to remove all the insulation and interior out the van.
The panel figment has to spot on which makes the job much harder than welding them on. We use fusor 109 for bonding most quarter panels nowadays, only the joins are welded all spotted flanges and especially wheel arches are bonded.
We add them to the estimate and the insurance engineers are quite happy for it to be used on their policy holders cars.
Saves a lot of problems with corrosion as you normally get with a mig plugged job.
I would only use if the panels fit properly and all mating surfaces are spotless no rust, otherwise it's expensive stuff to waste and will be easier to weld if the panel is of suspect quality and fit.

Post by **bluebus1987** » 18 May 2016, 22:03

Impressive stuff, How much working time do you get. I like the anti corrosion argument.
But I don't see how it could be used on a trailing arm mount or reconstucting a B pillar etc.
Would it be approved on a new front arch with a seatbelt mount going through it?
I know more modern vehicles use it a lot and we dont baulk at structural bonded winows etc. I suppose its about glueing metal just seems wrong somehow.
Thinking about it I drive an old espace at the moment, and all the outer panels are bonded to some degree.

Post by **Plasticman** » 18 May 2016, 22:29

with regard to our buses, its not for the repairs you speak off ,but for the use as above its fine, prob as strong as welded, it has its place like many things
mm

Post by **Bigjcc55** » 19 May 2016, 05:57

You only get about 20 minutes working time so it's a bit of a mad dash to get the panel fitted.

For all the structural areas you mentioned above welding is the only way to do it.

Post by **bluebus1987** » 19 May 2016, 08:43

I'm intrigued now!
On the T3 arch you show, whats joined on the inside? I can see you get a realy good join on the seams seen from the outside. Was all of the inner wing and quarter panel in good order? Is that a VW panel to get such a good fit without manipulating as you go to get good lines.Which seems to be most peoples experience of aftermarket stuff.

Sorry Bigjcc55 I just re-read your comments and you sort of answered my question already, But it would be good to get some more details of the process.

Post by **Ant-t** » 19 May 2016, 09:26

Interesting to see a whole panel bonded on, as commented above there is a non structural place for this esp with the anti corrosion properties

Post by **Bigjcc55** » 19 May 2016, 19:24

The panels were scholfields and took a bit of time to get a nice fit.
They are glued in a sandwich between the inner arch and the side panel, both surfaces were in good condition.

Image1463685577.178425.jpg

The arch fitted in as it would if it was to be welded, so there is bond on both surfaces of the new arch.
I used cleco pins to secure for pre fitting, then once the bond is applied use pop rivets in the holes that were used to pre fit.
That way you get a nice seam.
Once it is all cured the rivet heads are sealed over.
In the workshop on a quarter panel we use self tappers then grind the head and tail off when it's set.

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