Inner lamp Halo LED Mod

Post by **bmouthboyo** » 01 Apr 2016, 05:53

Hi Guys,

I could have sworn I saw a link or pics somewhere here of someone who added LEDS's around the edge of their inner head lamps that came on with the side lights as a MOD, but can't for the life of me find the post.

Does anyone know where I can find this info?

Cheers

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 01 Apr 2016, 07:17

For £37 a pair, just fit two of these:

http://www.powerfuluk.com/vehicles/land ... e-rhd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CJH has a set on his if you want to ask him.

Post by **MagicWagon** » 01 Apr 2016, 10:42

Hmm looks interesting. The OP has four headlights. I only have two. Would these work for mine, and would they give brighter beam.? Thanks.

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 01 Apr 2016, 14:27

Yes, and yes. Heres mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEIkGpC72GY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You just need to work out if the extra lights are 7", 6" or whatever.No comparison with old Hellas. Brighter and very clear definition between area that is lit and the blackness above (no stray light at all). Bear in mind these lights are reflector rather and lens-driven and very accurate. You could fit brighter bulbs but I've never needed them since I fitted these.

Post by **MagicWagon** » 01 Apr 2016, 14:57

Sorry, unlike your lights, I must be being dim. What do you mean by "extra" lights. I only have two lights and was assuming these would get replaced if I upgraded to these ?

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 01 Apr 2016, 16:12

Yes, they would. Sorry - cross purposes. However, you'll need to read another thread (when I can find it again) to be able to switch to a lucas-style light unit as we discussed this in depth last year. Its not hard (did mine with cable ties) but worth a read. Heres ONE of the threads anyway:

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **MagicWagon** » 01 Apr 2016, 23:19

Thanks for that. I started wading through some of the old threads but soon felt overwhelmed as there are many many pages. Without reading every single page, it sounds like it might not be worth it without upgrading to relays for lights, upgrading power to dash, re-cabling from alternator to battery etc etc. Soon becomes a bit too time consuming in view of all the other work I have that needs doing more urgently. So for the angel eyes, would you just have to fit them in the existing holders as per board monkey's post on this page https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?
If so, is it worth doing/possible without all the other relay/power upgrade shenanigans ?

Post by **bmouthboyo** » 02 Apr 2016, 01:42

Would the ones you linked too work as inner lamps like my setup? I thought they behave differently from the outer main headlights?

Sorry I'm not good with my knowledge of headlights.

Wouldn't need to do some modding as per your guide covkid or should it be a straight swap for the inners?
Cheers

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 02 Apr 2016, 08:50

Yes. you can get single filament bulbs (as opposed to main/dipped filaments) but even if you couldn't, you can just select the main beam filament if it came to it, with all four lights on when you're on main beam, and only the outers lit when on dipped. It makes wiring relatively simple as you just piggyback off the main beam circuit.

Basically when headlights are tested during an MOT, the only thing they check is the dipped beam as they want to ensure you're not dazzling anyone in that mode so if centre ones go out on dipped, the inners are irrelevant to the tester - as long as they actually work. MOT tests require that all fitted lights actually work. Obviously if all four came on for dipped. setting them up would not only be a nightmare, testing them would equally create problems which is why no one tends to tread that path and thats before you even cover the legality of it.

The light units are unlikely to be a straight fit (as CJH and I covered a while back) but it soon becomes apparent what needs to be done to fit them and good quality (not £ shop) cable ties do work incredibly well and you should be able to adjust them to light up the bits of the road you need. You MUST fit relays with four main beams and ideally should upgrade the cables a little to ensure you're not losing volts or warming up headlight harness. Good grounds are equally important.

I remember doing mine and although it was a somewhat ploddy job, I now have fantastic lights using only stock wattage bulbs. The main reason people fit extra bright bulbs like Osram Nightbreakers etc is because the reflectors are old-school battery torch reflectors and the lenses almost as vague. I suppose you could argue that the Hellas have a long life span but at £30-£40 for a complete pair of light units, who cares. The Hella ones cost that each and are nowhere near as crisp.

I do recommend an upgrade for the power line to dash as thats the basis of good lights anyway. Stock T25s tend to show just 10v at headlights which, coupled with old-school headlights isn't enough to scare a moth, much less a rabbit.

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/VW ... ry_to_dash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finally, it might seem daunting if you look at all the things that ideally should be done, but once done, dark lanes no longer become an issue and the need for extra bright bulbs diminishes rapidly.

Ideal setup with relays:

Interestingly, although the headlights I chose are NOT EU-marked, they have been presented to two diifferent testers who said beam pattern was better than they'd seen on many modern cars and the first words were "I like those lights". I drive all day with sidelights on now (which are all LED) which helps me stand out not just for other motorists but also pedestrians who seem hell bent on stepping out in front of you, staring into their mobile phone or with headphones on, so theres a safety aspect to consider too if you register on their peripheral vision.

I did work with powerfuluk's MD for quite a while trying to creatre a simple conversion from T25 pods to lucas pods but we eventually found ways to combat the difference which were simpler still. Chuffed to bits with my lights. Would NOT go back to Hellas.

Post by **silverbullet** » 02 Apr 2016, 10:24

Shame that they dont do a 5.75" halo, I sold my squares to go quad as per "shadetreetim" on the samba.
Must get the brackets made sometime...

Post by **MagicWagon** » 02 Apr 2016, 20:46

Still trying to get my simple mind around this. I have read the dash cable upgrade wiki. It's clear about wiring at the battery end, but doesn't go into what is required at the dash end. If it's done with the relay upgrade I think I get it, but not sure in isolation. I've also been reading the other relevant wiki articles and some of the related threads.
If I understand correctly, fitting replacement lights really should be done in conjunction with dash wire upgrade, which itself presumes an alternator to battery wire upgrade is also done. I'm not clear if adding relays is also a requirement if upgrading wiring, as not sure how you would wire lights with new dash wire without adding relays, or whether it would be worth it. Presumably you would have to feed the new wire into the circuit before the switches, so you would still get voltage drop through the switches, which makes me think relays and new dash wire need to be done hand in hand.
Would there be much benefit seen in fitting the angel eyes without also upgrading dash wire, alternator wire and without adding relays. Just wondering if it could be an easy first step if there is some benefit, and then add all three wiring upgrades to my "to do" list.
In that relay upgrade wiring diagram, I realise the red wire is all new, but are the yellow and green all using the existing wiring, with relays bisecting the old wires ? And what about the black wires, are all or any of those new ? As there are only two relays in the diagram I assume this corresponds with putting the relays in position A on this diagram https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/images/T25-h ... itions.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. For some reason I picture adding relays in position A or B as more difficult than in position C due to access to the required wires, although position C adds complication due to extra relays.
The more I think about this the more I realise my enthusiasm far outstrips my competence.

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 03 Apr 2016, 07:17

For extra lights or to improve existing ones, a new power line (dash to battery) and relays go hand in hand.

I don't go into detail as to citing of junction box at dash end because layouts vary. You can put it where you like as it has an insulated snap-down cover and can sit anywhere behind fusebox or be screwed in place somewhere convenient. The actual power for the lights will come from the junction box - independent of dash switches - thats the whole point, to take the extra load off headlight switch and fusebox.

Without good wiring and relays you run the risk of hot or burnt wiring or in the worst case scenario, a dash fire. All four lights on exceeds 200 watts. Even if things didn't burn out, they'd certainly be warm and you'd gain almost nothing in light output as the power available would be lost along the way in heat. By fitting a new cable from battery plus relays, you leave the existing headlight and dip switch to only carry a very minor load instead of the whole lot. The stock T25 wiring is barely adequate to run the headlights and you'll be lucky if you get 10.5v at headlights on a completely unmodified T25 anyway. Anything extra soon overloads it. Likewise fitting 100 watt bulbs (why people do that I don't know) also overloads the stock lighting circuit. The new powerline (which is a fat cable) is the source for lights, blower and rad fan. Having a junction box makes it easier to tap into. The existing powerline runs everything else including relays.

The relays are powered up from the yellow and white cables coming out of fusebox which normally go to headlights. They now power these relays instead and switch the new powerline to headlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nlei-2e4k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this seems rather complex, it might be best to employ someone to help you. Earlier Haynes manuals have easier to follow diagrams. The one for the Beetle uses the same colour coding for headlights if that makes it easier. Much of the T25 loom is derived from earlier v-dubs and Volkswagen didn't deviate much from it - at a time when most owners wanted to add more dash gadgets so it is already maxed-out. Its not just the extra lights that will gain with a new powerline - everything does. Even your original headlights will be noticeably brighter as they will see extra volts due to reduced losses in the cables. T25s are notorious for voltage drops.

The reason for replacing cable from battery to starter is because most are by now 30 years old and a new cable improves charging as well as starting. You can skip that if you feel its in fairly good fettle and just concentrate on fitting a new dash line. Its more an ideal than a 'must have' when it comes to lighting although a good upgrade.

Post by **MagicWagon** » 03 Apr 2016, 20:19

Thanks as always Covkid for taking the time to explain things.
Most examples I have seen on the interweb seem to place the relays before the fuses (i.e position A on this diagram https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/images/T25-h ... itions.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
It sounds as if you have yours after the fuses, in position B or C. Which have you gone for/which would you recommend? Also, as you say the relays are powered from the Yellow and white cables, does that mean you just use 2 relays and don't use the Black/white and Black/yellow cables in the above diagram ? Have you run new cables from relays to lights or used the existing, and have you put fuses in each of these, or are you just relying on the fuse in the new main supply ? Have you run two new power feeds for redundancy as per the above diagram (option C) ? Not sure why the diagram says position B needs 3 or 4 relays whereas position C needs only 2, but recommends 2 power feeds in position C, because as far as I can see position B and C are logically the same, just placing the relays either inside or outside the front body panel.
If I go down this route I'd much rather attempt it myself than get someone else to do it, as even though it feels challenging, I enjoy the process of getting a better understanding of the vehicle, and it always stands you in good stead when things go wrong.

Website · Post by **CovKid** » 04 Apr 2016, 06:00

To be honest, I've forgotten. When I'm next in there I'll take a nose. I know when I was doing it, I had to have my wits about me but I know headlights are covered by two lots of fuses so fairly sure relays are after the fusebox on mine and sit under the dash. I used a dual relay for simplicity. Theres nothing heavy on stock fusebox now anyway. You could do it either way.

At one time I had mused producing a military-strength kit for the whole upgrade from battery to lights but with the year changes, challenge of making it affordable but retaining quality - plus the problem of badly wired dashes, I dropped that idea. Besides, its easier to do everything in stages including moving power-hungry items to the new power line, one by one.

The stock VW fusebox is badly positioned too (in my opinion). It would have made things so much easier if the whole caboodle was under a flap on the dash. Doing this job makes it mandatory to adopt the "pray to the footwell" position

Post by **grace72** » 05 Apr 2016, 05:16

Just seen these on eBay
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Transporter- ... 1971180361" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Full replacement led round headlights!
I'm sure mods would be needed somewhere seems to good to be true.

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