Gear linkage help required - Solved.

[Smiffo]

Morning all.

Having recently changed out the 4sp gear linkage for the 5sp version, I spent some time trying to make adjustments.
Problem is, every gear seems right, except for third...

Third gear was always a pain to find, if you didn't really pull on the stick, it wouldn't slot home.

All the others were awful too, but although there is a vast improvement for reverse, 1st, 2nd etc etc, 3rd feels like I can't pull the stick back far enough.
It's like it doesn't quite `make` and you just hear the gears grinding as you can't pull the stick back far enough.

The pic below shows the boot that seems to bunch up and prevent the linkage moving forward anymore.
You can see me pushing the linkage forward to find third, but the rubber boot seems to have bunched up too much - the space is too small it appears and I think it needs to be able to move forward a tad more.



I think there is just too much rubber between the cup on the linkage, and the bushing.

So, the question is - have I got it all back correctly or have I bolted something on wrong?
Before I take a scalpel to the rubber boot, I want to know it isn't something stupid I have done.

E D I T: If it is hard to tell, I have the mounting plate bolted to the gearbox on the side nearer the front of the van, and the bushing bolted to the side of the mounting plate also nearer the front of the van.

Thanks in advance all.

[Mocki]

You have the support bracket on the wrong side of the flange on the gearbox casing I think....
Should be on the cab end

[itchyfeet]

You have the support bracket on the wrong side of the flange on the gearbox casing I think....
Should be on the cab end

yep common mistake described in wiki

[Smiffo]

You have the support bracket on the wrong side of the flange on the gearbox casing I think....
Should be on the cab end

Thanks Mocki.

In order from back toward cab, I have it set up as gearbox, then support bracket then flange - which is closest to cab end.

I think you mean that is how it should be?

[itchyfeet]

[Smiffo]

Hmmm.

Weird - just double checked, and flange is definitely on the side of the mounting plate nearest the cab.
( It was hard to tell from my first pic. )

Here is a picture taken from other side, i.e. from cab side of rear bushing:



I feel like there is something jumping out at me in your pic Itchy.
Not sure what it is though..

The other bit that bothers me, is I put a lot of grease in the rubber boot before fitting it.
I am wondering if it is the grease which is preventing the boot from collapsing enough?

[itchyfeet]

got the right bush inside? the centre bush is different

[itchyfeet]

ignore that^^^
perhaps relay lever is not on the spline right, needs to be vertical when in neutral

[Smiffo]

got the right bush inside? the centre bush is different

Yes, it was the same as the one that came out.
I suppose it is possible that was the wrong one though, although I do have the later one and the van in an 89.



Early vans had the rear one the same as the centre bush IIRC, which is more of a ball shape than doughnut shape.

[Mocki]

You can't get the selector rod one on the gearbox wrong it's recessed so it only fits in the correct position
,aye the sliding spline section in the middle is adjusted wrong ?

[Smiffo]

ignore that^^^
perhaps relay lever is not on the spline right, needs to be vertical when in neutral

The lever will only bolt onto the gearbox one way, as there is a `key` bit I think, that slots on.
The teeth are uniform all the way round apart from these two slots, which ensures it can only be put on the right way, or it would be upside down I think.

Hard to tell from my pic below, but it depicts the old lever:



You can just make out the `key` bit I mean, hopefully

[Smiffo]

You can't get the selector rod one on the gearbox wrong it's recessed so it only fits in the correct position
,aye the sliding spline section in the middle is adjusted wrong ?

Thanks Moki.

Perhaps I just haven't adjusted it correctly on the splines?
Thing is, I imagine to adjust that more, I would need to shorten the rod by sliding splines in more.
If I do this though, the bottom of the stick moves too much toward aluminium guides, and as such the stick won't be in the neutral position when the gearbox is in neutral.

Do you think rotational error at the splines could cause this?

I'm a little perplexed, but I don't want to cut the rubber boot unless I am sure it really is my first thought that it is that which is stopping the linkage going forward enough.

Appreciate your input chaps.
Sometimes second eyes are what is need - I could do with a good first set of eyes to work with first and foremost though..!!

[Mocki]

It's a black art , this gear linkage stuff.....
You need to make a stew of newts eyes and stuff in a huge black pot over a open fire to get it right !

It could well be the rotational adjustment on the splines on the middle joint , one spline makes a bigger difference than you imagine ....

[Aidan]

set the length so the guides are slap bang in the middle of the alloy blocks, set the rotation so that with the ball pushed into the gearbox till it meets spring pressure (that is 2nd and 3rd gear plane) and the guides straddling the blocks, and check the position of the gearstick pivot plate in the cab so that if early it is rotated to end of slots, if late so that one set of holes in the pivot plate line up with the holes in the mounting plate, sorry no picks to illustrate, one day I will spend a day doing a video of all of this but I just don't have time and I need Al to do the video, and I need a 5 speed van at the same time as a syncro or 4 speed at the garage where we can use the ramp

[Smiffo]

set the length so the guides are slap bang in the middle of the alloy blocks, set the rotation so that with the ball pushed into the gearbox till it meets spring pressure (that is 2nd and 3rd gear plane) and the guides straddling the blocks, and check the position of the gearstick pivot plate in the cab so that if early it is rotated to end of slots, if late so that one set of holes in the pivot plate line up with the holes in the mounting plate, sorry no picks to illustrate, one day I will spend a day doing a video of all of this but I just don't have time and I need Al to do the video, and I need a 5 speed van at the same time as a syncro or 4 speed at the garage where we can use the ramp

Thanks Aidan.

I think it's the rotation.
It feels like it hits the indent bit when I push toward reverse / 1st plane, but it is just the indent mechanism on the bottom of the stick.
I crawled underneath - for the 50th time - and if I hold the indent mechanism on the stick closed with my hands, there is a few mm play when pushing toward reverse plane before you feel the spring in the gearbox.

In other words, the fork at the bottom of the stick isn't lined over the aluminium blocks centrally ( close but not exact ) when the you feel spring pressure in the gearbox. There is a few mm to go.

I'm going to take a break before I get stressed, then pop out and rotate at the splines a tad.

I think I am getting there now, thankfully the rubber boot didn't see the scalpel.... Yet....

Thanks again all.