Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Big lumps of metals and spanners. Including servicing and fluids.

Moderators: User administrators, Moderators

Post Reply
randamonia
Registered user
Posts: 211
Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 11:54
80-90 Mem No: 14035
Location: Bucks/Beds

Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by randamonia »

Hi
I know there are a stack of threads about this but there's a few different symptoms/causes and I just wanted to double check the details of mine before I waste money/time. Hopefully this is a quick one either way i.e. tell me to close off the thread and read the existing info or crack on you may be into something. :?

So I get the usual intermittent starting. Turn the key, click, nothing happens. I went through and checked all connections, battery is good etc. If I rock the van in gear then turn the key at rest, it will fire up straight away without fail and with the installation of a new rotor arm and dizzy cap starts strong.

I'm thinking because this rocking effectively frees the starter motor this is more likely to be an issue with the bush rather than solenoid or brushes........or am I being hopeful (and mechanically hopeless) for a cheap fix?

Thanks
1987 Autohomes Komet 1.9 DG

User avatar
kevtherev
Registered user
Posts: 18832
Joined: 23 Oct 2005, 20:13
80-90 Mem No: 2264
Location: Country estate Wolverhampton Actually

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by kevtherev »

I reckon you have sussed it.
I used to whack mine with a hammer
AGG 2.0L 8V. (Golf GTi MkIII)

User avatar
CovKid
Trader
Posts: 8411
Joined: 30 Apr 2006, 13:19
80-90 Mem No: 3529
Location: Ralph - Coventry (Retired)
Contact:

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by CovKid »

The starter makes the full circuit via the short braided cable and the brushes so if they're past their best, you'll get a duff response - even at solenoid. Tap with a hammer to start (or rocking in gear) could mean a few things but pop the end off the starter and check there first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKSeAAd3rk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Weak braid (barely contacting), worn brushes, dying solenoid - any of those. Worth noting that rocking in gear can also put the brushes in just the right place for good contact.
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.

randamonia
Registered user
Posts: 211
Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 11:54
80-90 Mem No: 14035
Location: Bucks/Beds

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by randamonia »

Ahh, doh! Thanks for the advice and video. Going to have to bite the bullet and get on with stripping it off I guess Thanks again!
1987 Autohomes Komet 1.9 DG

MidLifeCrisis
Registered user
Posts: 566
Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 19:07
80-90 Mem No: 10519
Location: Bagshot, Surrey

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by MidLifeCrisis »

CovKid wrote:Worth noting that rocking in gear can also put the brushes in just the right place for good contact.
Curious how this works as I also used to do the 'rock in gear' method when I got the 'click but no start'
How does rocking in gear have any effect on the starter if it's not engaged??
I always wondered if it just jigged the flywheel a little and meant that the starter could engage it more easily (due to worn bush maybe)???
1987 Westfalia Van, Petrol 2.0 AGG

User avatar
ghost123uk
Registered user
Posts: 6855
Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:15
80-90 Mem No: 2585
Location: John in Malpas, in the very S. W. part of Cheshire.
Contact:

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by ghost123uk »

MidLifeCrisis wrote:How does rocking in gear have any effect on the starter if it's not engaged??
Is another one of those oddities that perpetuate :?

Also "If you ran out of fuel you may have pulled up muck from the bottom of the tank" :roll:
Got a new van, but it's a 165bhp T4 [shock horror] Accurate LPG Station map here

randamonia
Registered user
Posts: 211
Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 11:54
80-90 Mem No: 14035
Location: Bucks/Beds

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by randamonia »

Just to close this off.....hate a hanging thread :-)

I removed the starter motor and found all the connections to be very manky, cleaned those up and changed the bush which was very worn! Hey presto, all good. It's probably the connections that was the issue as they were a mess.

Cheers
1987 Autohomes Komet 1.9 DG

User avatar
CovKid
Trader
Posts: 8411
Joined: 30 Apr 2006, 13:19
80-90 Mem No: 3529
Location: Ralph - Coventry (Retired)
Contact:

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by CovKid »

Yep, far too many potentially good starters get condemned. Sometimes a thorough clean inside is all thats needed. Carbon dust gets everywhere.

Rocking in gear has no impact on the starter but the vibration (much like tapping with a hammer) can just get the brushes in the right place if they're worn - more by luck than anything. Mind you, it doesn't solve it. :D Far better to take it off and inspect carefully.

Which bush did you change?
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.

User avatar
Oldiebut goodie
Registered user
Posts: 7484
Joined: 18 Apr 2008, 01:19
80-90 Mem No: 11135
Location: Eastern Angle

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Rocking the car whilst in gear myth comes from the days when starters used to jam on the flywheel gear teeth (start to turn and then clunk), better design and tolerances seem to have dealt with the need for this. Someone must have applied this process to any starter fault without understanding what they were attempting to achieve.
1.6D 2019 VW T-Cross
200hp VW T6
1̶Y̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶7̶ ̶H̶i̶-̶t̶o̶p̶ ̶C̶a̶r̶a̶v̶e̶l̶l̶e̶
5̶0̶8̶d̶ ̶M̶e̶r̶c̶

randamonia
Registered user
Posts: 211
Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 11:54
80-90 Mem No: 14035
Location: Bucks/Beds

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by randamonia »

It was the gearbox starter motor bush I changed. The walls were very, very thin to the point of having a crack.

I cleaned up all the external connections but didn't crack open the starter motor as I was trying to narrow down the source of the issue step by step. After refitting all seems hunky dory, for now at least so I haven't taken it any further a the moment. If I start to get issues again i'll whip of the starter motor again and take a peek inside at the brushes; in fact I may do this anyway as a matter of course when I next get time to play :D
1987 Autohomes Komet 1.9 DG

User avatar
CovKid
Trader
Posts: 8411
Joined: 30 Apr 2006, 13:19
80-90 Mem No: 3529
Location: Ralph - Coventry (Retired)
Contact:

Re: Starter Motor - Just Checking.....

Post by CovKid »

Brushes are cheap too. You just need at least 100 watt soldering iron (Maplins do one for £15) - or gas one to solder them in. That and a commutator clean will often transform an old starter motor. Bearings do wear but I've not come across one that bad. Gearbox bush makes a MASSIVE difference to how the starter performs - good you changed it. Cheap to buy, often a pig to get the old one out. :D
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.

Post Reply