tommin wrote:If you offer a vehicle for sale or even supply a vehicle which has been clocked, although not by you, nor for you, and even if you are unaware that it has been clocked, you have committed an offence.
Jeez, that's a bit tight isn't it
When I replaced mine, I had to "clock it" forward as the one I bought had a lower mileage than the old one. I only did it because of my OCD
I would have thought that altering it forward should not be an issue? (or is it?)
Last edited by ghost123uk on 25 Jun 2015, 07:11, edited 1 time in total.
Re: paragraph 5, I dont think that the VW dealership network is going to be much help here.
I cannot see how it can be deemed fraudulent in any way to replace a broken speedo with a working unit reading the identical mileage.
No intent to decieve or mislead, quite the opposite in fact.
The odometer is still a true record of that vehicle's travelled mileage (even though it really only relates to the bodyshell's time on the road and not much else)
1985 Oettinger 3.2 Caravelle RHD syncro twin slider. SA Microbus bumpers, duplex winch system, ARC 7X15 period alloys
Trading Standards - Mileages of used Vehicles
WHY IS A MILEOMETER READING IMPORTANT?
The mileometer measures and indicates the mileage which a vehicle has travelled and that indication is a trade description. It will be treated as an accurate indication of distance travelled, unless positive and effective steps are taken to ensure that customers know that it is meaningless and cannot be relied upon. It is a criminal offence for a trader to supply, or offer to supply a vehicle with a false mileage reading, which is punishable by imprisonment and/or an unlimited fine.
CAN A MILEAGE READING BE ALTERED?
Anyone who alters any mileage reading, whether from a higher to a lower figure or to zero, can commit an offence. On the rare occasion where a speedometer/odometer unit is found to be faulty and needs to be replaced, a trader can protect himself by frankly disclosing the true mileage and reason for the difference to any prospective customer. A clear notice containing the true details should be placed beside, or preferably over, the new reading.
WHAT ABOUT CARS BOUGHT IN FOR SALE?
A trader who purchases a car already having a false mileage reading and places it on his forecourt for sale without an adequate disclaimer commits and offence.
WHAT ACTION CAN BE TAKEN TO AVOID COMMITTING OFFENCES?
When buying vehicles, get the seller to confirm in writing that the mileage is correct, incorrect or unknown.
If the seller to you is the only person who has owned the car, check that the general condition, mechanically and bodily, is consistent with a vehicle of that mileage and age. Ask for and check the service history.
When buying from an auction, note whether the mileage is warranted or not warranted. In either case, check the mileage history with the previous registered keepers.
Only when the full mileage history is known should a vehicle be offered for sale as genuine mileage. If after making all reasonably practical checks (e.g. with the previous registered keepers), there are any doubts as to its accuracy, use an adequate disclaimer.
A record should be maintained of any checks you have made.
Do not include a statement of the mileage reading on your sale invoice, or other documents if you cannot prove that it is correct. You cannot "disclaim" any reference to mileage that you enter on sales documents yourself.
Ensure that all sales staff and other employees who come into contact with customers are properly instructed in these matters and have access to all relevant information (e.g. purchase invoices and results of any checks made).
WHAT IS A DISCLAIMER?
A disclaimer is a notice stating that the mileage is incorrect and that it should be disregarded. The wording and size is important and the notice should be as bold, precise and compelling as the mileage reading itself. To be effective, it must be either adjacent to, or preferably covering, the odometer reading.
A general disclaimer notice on the forecourt or in the office is not sufficient.
No disclaimer notice gives protection to a trader who has altered a mileage reading or replaced a speedometer/odometer unit that was not faulty.
WHAT IF A MILEAGE IS UNTRUE?
A disclaimer notice should be placed alongside or over the mileage reading, clearly indicating that it is incorrect. If the true mileage is known, this should be stated on the notice.
In cases where a vehicle only has a five figure odometer and it is only capable of registering 99,999 miles, if you are aware that the vehicle's true mileage reading is the mileage recorded on the odometer plus 100,000 miles, you must disclose what you know to be the true mileage e.g. 134,000 miles.
RULES TO REMEMBER
NEVER ALTER AN ODOMETER READING.
IF IT IS NECESSARY TO CHANGE A SPEEDOMETER/ODOMETER UNIT, YOU MUST INFORM CUSTOMERS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND OF THE TRUE MILEAGE.
IF YOU WISH TO MAKE ANY USE OF THE RECORDED MILEAGE, YOU MUST CHECK THE HISTORY OF A CAR BEFORE OFFERING IT FOR SALE.
KEEP FULL AND COMPREHENSIVE RECORDS.
IF YOU ARE NOT SURE THE MILEAGE IS TRUE, USE A DISCLAIMER NOTICE AND MAKE SURE IT REMAINS IN POSITION.
SPECIMEN DISCLAIMER NOTICE
WARNING
THE MILEAGE RECORDED ON THIS INSTRUMENT IS INCORRECT
DISREGARD IT
RELEVANT LEGISLATION
Trade Descriptions Act 1968
Life is an oldie campervan
1983 1.6D Bus
1989 16D Caravelle C (Botched to 1.6TD)
Beside the legal things on a 20-30 year old car I would not trust on the mileometer on the condition. You can kill the engine, the drivetrain in miles, the wearing parts are all changed a few times, the bodyshell could be welded many times.
For the OP: as described, the easiest way is to turn the counter over zero to the needed position, but the counter itself is not so complex it can be disassembled and reassembled with the needed count.
E D I T: in the UK the mileometer reading is checked on the MOT?
Zoltan
1986 Multivan ex-Caravelle. Van since 2006, running mTDi 1Z since 2008 with Fiat Croma 1.9 TDid pump 2008-2019, custom pump since 2019
5spd custom box 4.57 diff + 0.74 5th
The legal point is the "clocking" be it down or up, to alter the speedometer in any form. I checked this out and it is scary. If you/i (joe public) alter the clock for any reason you/i will have committed an offence, for they say you have tampered in some way to alter the reading all be it for good, or bad reasons. If it is to be altered it must be done by an approved station with the disclaimer and paperwork in order. If it needs to be replaced due to it being faulty, it should be done by an authorised dealer with the correct paperwork and disclaimer. This means me/you cannot just swap clocks it must be done through the system, and I for one agree with it. Think about it a bit, it worries me if someone has altered or changed the clock, would I really want to buy from them knowing that it has been altered or changed (for good or bad reasons). But if the replacement/altering has been done through the system with the revelant paperwork I would have no worries with it. That is my opinion.
Life is an oldie campervan
1983 1.6D Bus
1989 16D Caravelle C (Botched to 1.6TD)
The reason the law was changed for mileometers was because of all the running back on used cars. On a 30 year old vehicle its irrelevant if its yours and you're keeping it. Besides noone gives a fig what it shows. If the engine/body looks clean and runs well, thats all the buyer wants to know.
Roller paint your camper at home: http://roller.epizy.com/55554/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for MP4 download.
which 'authorised dealer' is going to source and install a 25/30 yr old speedometer?
i took lots of photos of the change on mine - and sent them on to my insurers - no comeback as yet -
kept the old non working one as proof - old stuck one had shown the same mileage for the last 3 years (as shown on is mot's ) - hardly 'accurate and legal'?
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-
Ouch don't shoot the messenger, all I am doing is pointing the fact, altering the clock either way can drop you in it. I would though throw the question, even though no come back from the insurer, would they actually pay up if you had to make the claim? or would they throw the same legal jargon that is posted back at you? I am only pointing out the pitfalls of this very grey area which could cost a person dearly.
Life is an oldie campervan
1983 1.6D Bus
1989 16D Caravelle C (Botched to 1.6TD)
i would invite the messenger in - and say thank you for bringing up this important post!
i'll update if i encounter any problems with mot/ insurers/
really useful to have other people's comments/ experiences /
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-
Have put a new cable on and the new/used speedo and works fine.
I am getting a invoice from t25 direct with the mileage of new speedo on it as proof of purchase for the future.Also I have taken photos of my speedo in the van with the new one next to it with date and time for proof.And contacted my insurance to inform them of the change in mileage. They said that was fine just had to give them new mileage reading.Also contacted the MOT centre were I have got my van MOTeed for last 7 years and he will confirm on headed paper the change of speedo and mileage.I will keep the old speedo for future reference.This should keep things right if I ever decide to sell.
don't shoot the messenger, all I am doing is pointing the fact, altering the clock either way can drop you in it. I would though throw the question, even though no come back from the insurer, would they actually pay up if you had to make the claim? or would they throw the same legal jargon that is posted back at you? I am only pointing out the pitfalls of this very grey area which could cost a person dearly. 
