240v hook install ADVICE PLEASE!

[shrekwoody]

hi people just refurbing my devon hi top and need to decide on fitting 240v hook up

any advice on good buys? what best kit to buy/fit

im eventually fitting secondary leisure battery but keeping 12v lights

any handy tips and advice please people

also any good links to whr buy

thanks in advance

[LeeME3]

Just finished mine - will post some pics up as soon as able. I went for mounting the connector inside the number plate flap to save having to drill the body. From there i found a neat route into the rear cupboard via the back of the rear light cluster and was able to mount the MCB/RCD inside the cupboard. Didn't buy a kit as picked up some bits of ebay and had other bits already lying around plus I wanted nicer sockets than in the kits - but that said when I looked at the kits they all looked much of a muchness and I think the JK one was cheapest. Installing took a surprisingly long time but I did it nice and slow and wanted it to be as neat/invisible as possible - really pleased with the result.

[LeeME3]

Here you go. First off the 'entry point' - requires a bit of careful measuring but it does clear the water bottle and oil filler. I worked on the theory that everywhere you drill the body is a potential (likely!) future rust area so wanted to minimise drilling - if ever this causes a rust issue I have one small flap to replace not a whole panel.


From there the cable is secured inside the engine bay well away from any moving or heat producing parts and sneaks through the gap into the area you can access behind the rear light cluster. There's a fair bit of room behind that cluster, certainly enough to get your hand in. It is a completely dry area so I drilled down from inside the cupboard above to pass the supply through. The earth cable that runs from the MCB box to a decent body/chassis earth also takes the same route in reverse (this earth is essential as it guards against the whole van becoming 240v live in the event of a malfunction!). Because my cupboard has quite a thick wooden floor I was unable to find grommets to fit so used a length of that high quality garden hose to stop the wire chafing - along with plenty of p clips and cable ties either side so neither wire nor hose can move). I used orange 16AMP cable from entry point to MCB/RCD box and kept it to a max of 1m as, whilst probably overkill, this complies with the electrical installation regulations (even though I can't see how it would ever be checked for compliance - but I'm a fan of a 'belt and braces' approach when working with leccy!). From there it's easy enough to run the cables inside the cupboard and into the MCB/RCD box you can see in the top of the cupboard here:


In that picture you can also see the socket mounted in the back. My MCB/RCD box has provision for a 5AMP circuit and a 10AMP circuit - these could easily be upgraded by changing out the RCDs which cost a few £££. You can get boxes with more circuits on including dedicated circuits for chargers, fridges etc. I don't have a fixed fridge.

I also mounted a socket in the forward area and made sure that is the 10A circuit as it will get heavier use including electric heaters for winter camping. That forward circuit has an intelligent charger wired into it as well which in turn feeds the leisure battery or main vehicle battery (at the moment I make this selection manually but will make that automatic in the future). It is 'only' a 3.8A charger and is manly designed for conditioning the battery in storage and giving it a gentle top up on site. Under heavy current draw (eg heater / coolbox) it would be possible to discharge the battery quicker than the charger is topping it up so the charger has a protection circuit to stop it becoming the de-facto power source. You could just get a more expensive charger that draws more current but then I'd advise putting it on a dedicated circuit. I did do a test with the stereo running and it still shows a net gain whilst in use so I'm happy with that as that is my most likely continuous demand whilst parked up.


The sockets I chose were quite expensive at £10 each - you can of course get much cheaper white plastic ones (and don't forget to fit back boxes to the sockets if there is any chance at all the backs are exposed - obviously mine are in cupboards so they are completely covered and the wires p clipped every few inches to avoid snags and exposed wires.). Even allowing for the expensive sockets the install cost less than £55 (excluding the charger). It was quite time consuming as I wanted a neat look with no wires on show and there was a fair bit of standing around head scratching (and drinking tea - thanks Mike's missus!) to work out unobtrusive safe wire routes. It would be a lot easier to do before the cupboards are fitted but I sure as hell wasn't going to take them all out!

[Nij]

You can get kits on ebay from about £60 (three sockets, RCD's, consumer unit and all wires).

Easy to fit.


Personally on mine I have.
3 sockets (one at back, one near wardrobe and one under R&R)
2 240V 30W lights
Intelligent charger for the leisure battery (with the option to top up the cranking battery also)

My hook up point is attached to the chassis, accessed through the inspection hatch (I always found them small enough without any plugs interfering).

Where are you based, your more than welcome to pop over and look at my set up.


One thing I cannot recomend enough, is a socket checker - something like this

link to my blog about electrics

[dicey]

I have also installed my mains hookup socket behind the number plate flap. As there is now a TDI behind there instead of a WBX, I dont have the coolant bottle and dipstick at the opening so I have room for the mains socket.


With this socket tucked away nicely, Im hoping the van to have smooth lines all around, with no obtrusive vents and sockets etc. cut into the side of the van. Success so far, as with the 12V waeco fridge there is no need for a large outside vent. The only remaining hole to be cut in the van metalwork is for the truma gas heater exhaust. Im hoping to locate this under the bench seat at the sloped engine bulkhead, away from any flammable plastic though.

[itchyfeet]

I didn't think there was enough room on a wbx with the oil filler but as you have done it I will give it a go.

Earth is a must.

the area you can access behind the rear light cluster. There's a fair bit of room behind that cluster, certainly enough to get your hand in. It is a completely dry area

appart from the water that comes down the air vent

[AdrianC]

the area you can access behind the rear light cluster. There's a fair bit of room behind that cluster, certainly enough to get your hand in. It is a completely dry area

appart from the water that comes down the air vent

Contradictory as it may seem, the kind of water you're going to get from that isn't a big issue for a properly fitted blue three-pin socket. They're designed to be IP44-rated - protected against water "splashed from all directions".


Just think about how well weather-protected the other end isn't on many campsites, or all those plugs-and-sockets extending cables, lying in the grass...

TBH, I'd think that the heat in the engine bay would be a bigger problem, long-term, and any oil mist would certainly reduce the life of the plastics.

[itchyfeet]

Yes I know about IP ratings in my job and I don't think the numberplate flap is a problem for an IP44 mains fitting if the door will shut becuase it's protected from thd elements then.
splashing is not the same as all night heavy rain.
Just becase something has an IP rating does not mean it's safe in every application, it just means it works when you test it for a limited time.

it was just the statement about dry area behind light, it's not dry.

while we are on the subject IP 44 mains when it gets damp inside ( if you leave the numberplate flap open) will leak current to earth or your van if its not earthed
this gave me a mild electric shock once because I didn't earth the van, it could also trip out an RCD which is more common these days on campsite supplies.

[dicey]

So I have made up this wiring diagram. I have borrowed parts of it from a wiring diagram I found on the net.


I have all the 12V wiring completed already, I just need to finish the mains wiring. My plan is to have a mains rated (coil + contacts) DPDT relay that will switch between power from the inverter, or power from the hookup and feed this to the mains sockets. If anyone sees anything stupid in the diagram, let me know so I can correct before I wire up.

[AdrianC]

So I have made up this wiring diagram. I have borrowed parts of it from a wiring diagram I found on the net.


I have all the 12V wiring completed already, I just need to finish the mains wiring. My plan is to have a mains rated (coil + contacts) DPDT relay that will switch between power from the inverter, or power from the hookup and feed this to the mains sockets. If anyone sees anything stupid in the diagram, let me know so I can correct before I wire up.

I wouldn't bother with the inverter, tbh - and, if I did, I'd probably just do separate sockets. Or, for simplicity, just have separate sockets from the inverter so that you know you're working off the different (finite) source. 12v -> mains is inefficient, and only tempts you to use high powered equipment that'll flatten the battery in short order.

But, with that included, all looks good to me.

[CJH]

I wouldn't bother with the inverter, tbh - and, if I did, I'd probably just do separate sockets. Or, for simplicity, just have separate sockets from the inverter so that you know you're working off the different (finite) source. 12v -> mains is inefficient, and only tempts you to use high powered equipment that'll flatten the battery in short order.

I agree - I have in inverter, and I think I've only used it once (for charging a laptop while camping without hook-up). When I installed mine I changed the hook-up/sockets wiring so that it goes via a plug and socket, so that I can transfer the sockets to the inverter if I need to.

[dicey]

I wouldn't bother with the inverter, tbh - and, if I did, I'd probably just do separate sockets. Or, for simplicity, just have separate sockets from the inverter so that you know you're working off the different (finite) source. 12v -> mains is inefficient, and only tempts you to use high powered equipment that'll flatten the battery in short order.

But, with that included, all looks good to me.

I had considered not bothering with an inverter, but for the rare occasion I might need one, Id like it to be there. The Inverter I have is a weedy 200W cheapo which I didnt pay for, so I want to make use of it, but have it stored away out of sight.
I want to have only one mains socket location, and this will be the 3-way pop up socket in the worktop. I dont like having sockets down in the bed kick panel, I think its a bad location for them.

[MidLifeCrisis]

I had considered not bothering with an inverter, but for the rare occasion I might need one, Id like it to be there. The Inverter I have is a weedy 200W cheapo which I didnt pay for, so I want to make use of it, but have it stored away out of sight.

I think the problem will be if you're on hook-up in some campsite and the campsite power goes down - your system will quietly switch to running through the inverter and you'll be none the wiser, and your leisure battery will be quickly emptying itself!!!
Also, looking at your diagram - is that inverter going to be powered up all the time? I'd assume that there would be some current draw even when it's not supplying 240v so it would slowly drain your leisure battery; at the least I'd add a big on/off switch somewhere in your eyeline (preferably with a big red light on it!!) so you know when it's being used!!

[dicey]

I think the problem will be if you're on hook-up in some campsite and the campsite power goes down - your system will quietly switch to running through the inverter and you'll be none the wiser, and your leisure battery will be quickly emptying itself!!!
Also, looking at your diagram - is that inverter going to be powered up all the time? I'd assume that there would be some current draw even when it's not supplying 240v so it would slowly drain your leisure battery; at the least I'd add a big on/off switch somewhere in your eyeline (preferably with a big red light on it!!) so you know when it's being used!!

Good point, there is a small switch on the back of the inverter, but I may wire in a bigger labelled switch and keep it in a visible place. I would definitely know when the inverter is on, but if I lend the van to someone else for a weekend, thats when I will be getting phonecalls.