Ralf85 wrote:The starter usually struggles in the cold. No struggling today for the first time ever.
Surely a "struggling starter" cannot be improved by fitting a relay to the solenoid trigger wire. That only takes care of voltage drop to the coil in the solenoid, the starter motors voltage feed wires remain unaltered and therefore the starters performance, once engaged, cannot be any different to before. (unless I am misunderstanding how this relay is connected).
lloydy wrote: I'm sure it must work otherwise why would he sell them and people buy them?
As I say, (unless I am misunderstanding what this relay does) my understanding is that it takes the load off the ignition switch and also provides a healthier voltage to the solenoid, which is fine, but it is nowt to do with curing any losses in the main (150+ Amp) starter motor circuit.
lloydy wrote: I'm sure it must work otherwise why would he sell them and people buy them?
As I say, (unless I am misunderstanding what this relay does) my understanding is that it takes the load off the ignition switch and also provides a healthier voltage to the solenoid, which is fine, but it is nowt to do with curing any losses in the main (150+ Amp) starter motor circuit.
i totally get what your saying, I'm just saying if you want the 100% correct answer then ask the maker. If he's anything like his samba persona, he'll be happy to inform you.
Personally i have no knowledge on how it works
lloydy wrote: I'm sure it must work otherwise why would he sell them and people buy them?
As I say, (unless I am misunderstanding what this relay does) my understanding is that it takes the load off the ignition switch and also provides a healthier voltage to the solenoid, which is fine, but it is nowt to do with curing any losses in the main (150+ Amp) starter motor circuit.
I'm no expert on electrics. If you go to lloydy's first message you can read the link which explains the function and the second link which shows how to fit it. I don't understand either. All I know is it works!
This is what the ignition switch has to do.
Click to play
It has to energize the solenoid pulling the pinion and turning the starter motor into engagement with the ring gear which draws over 30 amps through the ignition switch, then the main contacts in the solenoid connect the battery and turn the engine over all the ignition switch then has to do is hold the solenoid engaged using around 11 amps.
That all should happen in a split second but as things get older the current able to pass down the trigger wire reduces combined with clutch dust on the pinion, lubricant drying out in the solenoid and increased starter brushes resistance increases the amps needed particularity when the starter is hot and the starter brush resistance is high there may not be enough to energise the solenoid (hence it is often called a hot start relay), even if it does the action can be sluggish giving poor closing of the battery solenoid contacts causing arcing. Fitting the relay give back full power to the solenoid pulling it in hard and giving a nice clean contact to the battery contacts.
1982 Camper 1970 1500 Beetle Various Skoda's, Ariel Arrow
Jay the supplier of the relay just sent the following message in response to my e-mail yesterday: There will always be nay-sayers when it comes to anything that VW didn't install as standard equipment. One funny thing to consider is that you could buy the Bosch WR-1 Starter Relay kit at VW dealerships for years, since VW knew that this problem was very real and was easy to work around.
The hard start relay is a proven solution that serves two valuable purposes. The first is to deliver as much voltage and current to the starter solenoid as possible for more reliable starts. It does this by pulling power directly from the main battery cable post via the 5/16" ring terminal instead of from the battery, up to the dash, then back to the starter on a thinner wire...
The second benefit is that it significantly reduces the electrical load on the overburdened ignition switch. I have measured over 15A at terminal #50 on the starter solenoid when cranking. If you have ever seen the inside of a VW ignition switch, you know that this is not a desirable amount of juice to be pulling through the tiny electrical contacts. With the relay installed, the typical current draw is less than 0.5A.
I have run a hard start relay in every VW I have owned since 1989 and have never had to replace an ignition switch due to an electrical failure. For the price of the kit and the ease of installation (unless you have a Syncro) it is hard to beat from a cost / benefit standpoint.
Jays the man when it comes to this stuff! Always helpful and his products are well built. I have been running my hard start relay for a few years without any problems.
Timwhy wrote:Jays the man when it comes to this stuff! Always helpful and his products are well built. I have been running my hard start relay for a few years without any problems.
I have been running a standard set up for more than a few years equally without any problems.
One thing I have learnt in the many years of following forums like ours is that the enthusiasts themselves often talk themselves into 'snake oil treatments, magic harnesses and improvement mods'. That's not to say that there isn't fact behind the fiction but I do get the impression sometimes that enthusiasm gets the better of us, the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater and a new jacuzzi gets installed and all that was needed was a little more warm water.
Put another way......the vehicle has managed to start just fine for 25 plus years..has something changed to prevent it starting? So it is that part that needs attention.
Martin
Last edited by California Dreamin on 30 Jan 2015, 22:29, edited 2 times in total.
