16v WBX heads

[silverbullet]

Now that I have your attention...

If you could buy such a thing and it was affordable, would you?

More to the point, given the amount of aftermarket kit that is available to the type 1 fraternity including new crankcases that allow circa 3000cc and special heads with massive valve sizes to suit, why hasn't this been done before? Are they all stuck in the past?

I know that pushrod 4v per cyl is quite feasable and with a bit of smart port design could be made fully compatible with the standard wbx inlet and exhaust manifolds.

A central spark plug is also a good thing for more complete combustion.

I have a realistic idea of the up front patterning costs for the head and rocker box, the rockers themselves would have to be fully machined from steel unless adopting them from another engine. Valves are easy, probably best to use inline 16v ones if not too long, keep it VAG for ease of future service etc

It would probably work best when teamed up to an oversize wbx like a 98 x 82mm 2475cc, for which I have now started to source parts supply

Add on modern seq.efi and the wbx moves into the 21st century...

[Syncrobaz]

Listening with interest. But what about the problem of the 'soft' camshaft ?

[silverbullet]

Camshaft? Proper materials bought in from the USA. I need to speak to Rocky Jennings about his 2.5 cam profile.

[silverbullet]

Food for thought. For wbx application the whole lot would have to be rotated to put the valves in a skewed cruciform pattern, to enable the exhaust ports to face the ends of the head.


GM duramax head (4v diesel pushrod) note the rocker arrangement with valve spreader bars

[silverbullet]

How did I post this in syncro? It was supposed to be in Alt. Engine forum!
Ruddy tapatalk...mods request time again!

[itchyfeet]

Probably not for me as my pockets are not deep enough but I love the idea of developing the wbx and keeping it alive for future generations rather than living off used transplants.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by affordable as it's subjective, can you put an estimate to it, I'd guess a small batch would me more than double a standard new head even without paying for all the tooling within the batch?

[silverbullet]

I need to see if the mechanics of the idea are truly feasable on paper, then probably butcher an old head or two to get a working model, then protoype, then.... not an overnight job but we have a good relationship with a first class foundry, which will help quite a lot.

Costs dont really come into a project like this, but if you could have a reliable 2.5 litre 160bhp+ wbx making over 200Nm with a good broad torque band and genuine mid-20's mpg (real world, not stripped-out constant 50mph stuff) with all ancilliariess and service items unaltered with no "foreign" stuff, 99% VAG and recogniseable to any VW garage.
What's not to like?

[itchyfeet]

Now that I have your attention...

If you could buy such a thing and it was affordable, would you?

opening line then you say costs don't come into it.

any business idea needs costing, thats assuming it is a business idea?

[itchyfeet]

Complicated enough as it is

[silverbullet]

Ok...perhaps not cost irrelevant as such. I have a realistic idea of what to expect for the patternmaking and individual castings, but an accurate retail price is a long way off because there are a lot of unknowns.
When I say affordable, take that as "equivalent overall cost to an other good quality engine conversion of similar spec and power, mpg etc" because the standard Digifant ecu will be redundant, along with 30-year old engine wiring. It would need to be a complete turn-key kit, but it will.still be a wbx and the usp is that everything else still fits and has 025 & 251 part numbers.

I have also bandsawed up another dead head recently, you need a few more cuts to see where the thin points are on the port walls

[toomanytoys]

As you know Ian.. anything is possible...

BUT

Is it practical??

Cost wise.. nobody wants to spend 3k+ on a quality rebuilt stock (ish) engine.... let alone the extra for "special heads"

Why not invest the money in a Scoobie 2.5 with the issues sorted..

An alternative is..
A better 2 valve head design rather than copying the stock one.. The AMC has improvements but why no a step further..?

[itchyfeet]

I think it's for wbx lovers not all about power and cost

and becuase it's a challenge and fun I suspect

but you are right the number of people with 3k+ to burn is limited.

[silverbullet]

I am of course looking across the pond for a bigger potential market

The Subaru EJ series are rapidly becoming a classic engine anyway and do have their issues, never mind in the back of a T3.

Folks spent far more than 3k on a etdi that they soon won't be able to drive into any number of cities across Europe.

I'll see how it looks on the drawing board first...

[toomanytoys]

I would say.. forget retaining the old induction side and exhaust.. they aint a great cost in the scheme of things when you price those heads up....

[silverbullet]

Hmm... let's see. I think that the first pair off tools will comfortably see off 5 or 6k, I wouldnt want to add to the complexity of the conversion with new manifolding and it rather detracts from the purity if the concept in my book.

It would be easier to go ohc or even just modify Subaru heads to fit, but that's missing the point.

The prospect of the technical challenge has the strongest appeal for me