TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

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bugsteve
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TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by bugsteve »

Hi everyone, i would like to share with you my bad experience of a TES 2.2 engine through photos of the strip down. First let me explain.. After installing this engine 1 1/2 years ago and doing my 500 mile run in i was not happy as engine was making very loud tick tapping noises and generally sounded rougher than the original 1.9 removed with worn valve guides..

(I went for 2.2 dj as i wanted bit more power whilst keeping things VW.. I use my van to travel all over Europe for work and have insurance to allow 365 days abroad. They are very strict and don't allow Subaru's or corsa epas etc)

During run in and after I returned to TES on 2 separate occasions explaining the engine did not run so well and was noisy in an effort to get things looked at just to be fobbed off that in Jim's opinion the engine was fine, and there was nothing he was willing to do..... and even suggested i was imagining the tapping sounds!!

not blowing my own trumpet here but i work as an Aircraft mechanic building VIP jets etc. I did a 4 year apprenticeship to do so, i am used to working with skill not with imagination!! but on that score basically gave up on getting any after sales support..

So this engine has run approx 13 000 miles over a year and a half and finally gave up last week, luckily in this country 50 miles from my families home at start of my journey and not half way to my home in Czech republic where i was heading.

The engine has not been trouble free in this time.. firstly the crankshaft oil seal started leaking. I had the gearbox removed to replace it and found that the flywheel was scored and had wore through the seal over a short period. £300 labor later and a new seal and flywheel stopped the leak... (should have been a warranty, but didn't want to waste my time with TES, after all they had put the flywheel back on in that state in the first place).... a little after this i started getting oil pressure light and buzzer sounding when coming up slip road off motorway. (van and i were in Germany at the time) I contacted TES giving symptoms and telling engine was still tapping away, He advised fitting a 30mm oil pump to make more pressure and agreed with me that it would only reduce the problem rather than providing a solution.. During this i found out the expensive way that i have beetle timing gear not original so had a t25 pump i could not return as was fitted and 5 days wait with van off the road waiting for a pump that would fit..

The end of this engine was quite dramatic in that it pressurized oil in sump, blew it up the breather through the carb and turned van into a smoke machine just passed Guildford on A3! I got a tow home, but bless her she drove her self off the truck and into the drive

So below are photos i took of various components upon strip down,

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As can be seen above, the engine case was painted black over oxidization and 2 half's were separated using a cold chisel top and bottom of the crankshaft oil seal.. Part of TES price includes inspection for cracks in case... hmmm i wonder if that was done or not?.

small end bearings are very worn and there was excess play between them and gudgeon pins. looks very much like these were not replaced to me.

The engine is sold as 2.2 and i was told by Jim compression ratio is kept as standard dj 10.1 however the pistons are these made by AA....

T25 2100cc Big Bore Barrel And Piston Kit (95.5mm) Low Compression Big Bore Barrel and Piston Kit for T25 waterboxer vans with a 2100cc engine. These kits up the displacement to 2178cc from 2109cc. Low compression 95.5mm. as sold by cool air

On removal, each top compression ring on all 4 pistons was broken as per photos. It looks to me like incorrect rings are fitted to enable the ends to lap over and snag (opinions gratefully received) also can anyone say what the diamond cut out is.. found only on one piston????????? is quite symmetrical and doesn't look like damage...

So these pistons gain a few more cc's but have lower compression (same as mv), can anyone tell me what benefit this has?

The camshaft speaks for its self and is maybe the cause of the extremely worn valves, guides and lifters (sorry yet to photo) Particularly inlet valves.. one with maybe 1 mm play!. I was told by a VW breaker friend of mine that he had heard TES had some trouble with a bad batch of Chinese made camshafts at some point... just hear say but funny enough when i asked Jim about cam shaft specs and maker on the phone during low oil pressure saga he went strangely silent and would only tell me he had them made himself by someone..

The crankshaft was standard size with standard bearings and cam has beetle timing gear, the damage to timing gear was probably caused by a piece of piston ring found in the sump.

So all in all a complete P.O.S engine build performed by a so called specialist!

So what am i doing about it... I have new parts ordered as well as a bentley manual and a DTI and will build engine myself like i should of done in first place! This must wait till new year though as i must go to Hamburg for a month first to fit interior to an Airbus 380 but i will put a detailed parts list on here and welcome comments and knowledge from others with grounded knowledge in the meantime

cheers.

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mrhutch
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by mrhutch »

blimey!

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Good luck
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by AdrianC »

bugsteve wrote:So what am i doing about it... I have new parts ordered as well as a bentley manual and a DTI and will build engine myself like i should of done in first place!
Good for you!

Can't wait to hear what the parts & machining bill comes to, compared to the "fully rebuilt" option...
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bugsteve
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by bugsteve »

cheers mr hutch,

im hoping to eliminate the need for luck by using quality parts and quality workmanship! luck comes in when using VW 'specialists' in my experience so far... didnt mention in post above but had a duff engine built, installed then removed 2 days later by elite also.....! at least they gave money back... were a good bunch of lads actually, just engine build skills and workshop facilities not up to much. the reason i then went to TES was coz they had all the machines there to enable a good job... seems they just chose not to use them hahaha.

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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by what2do »

Steve, was it not your old 1.9 that I bought? Your name rings a bell.
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

'89 panel van, 1.9 DG.

bugsteve
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by bugsteve »

yes, thats right. was my dg.. remember i was in 2 minds to sell it as thought i may need it as a spare at some point.... i just didnt have the space in the lock up for it and the beetle... how you doing anyway, hope you are well!

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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by jamesc76 »

Not a cheap engine, I converted to subaru for less than that!
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pionte
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by pionte »

Not good ... those camshaft lobes look like they have done 200K miles !

I am quite regularly disappointed in the quality of work done by others that I pay for, In an ideal world I would do all the work myself.. but sometimes time restraints and circumstance doesnt allow. If I was you I would be rightly pi$$ed of as well.
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by Dazco »

That all looks and sounds a bit "pooh". I can't believe Its such a hit and miss chance of getting a well built engine. I know it's not a cheap thing to do but surely if there was a company out there Charging more but for a genuine rebuilt engine they would have people knocking there doors down. Good luck with the re build. I'll be watching with interest .
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by Sir Brixalot »

Are Elite and TES linked? Bad luck with the rebuild, it wasn't cheap-how long is TES warranty? I really think we should have a seperate feedback section on here for each of the main rebuilders to make it easier to get an overview on their performance.
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what2do
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by what2do »

bugsteve wrote:yes, thats right. was my dg.. remember i was in 2 minds to sell it as thought i may need it as a spare at some point.... i just didnt have the space in the lock up for it and the beetle... how you doing anyway, hope you are well!


Ticking along nicely thanks, looks as though my spare (purchased from you) is a lot better than your poorly lump. Could be worse, you could be skint and desperate. Every cloud has a silver lining and all that!

Ps. You've not told us what your plan is with TES.....
Why would the glass be anything other than half full?

'89 panel van, 1.9 DG.

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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by Plasticman »

Dazco wrote:That all looks and sounds a bit "pooh". I can't believe Its such a hit and miss chance of getting a well built engine. I know it's not a cheap thing to do but surely if there was a company out there Charging more but for a genuine rebuilt engine they would have people knocking there doors down. Good luck with the re build. I'll be watching with interest .
ah, herein lies the problem,,,££££ i used to rebuild Chrysler 383's and the odd 440 and to do right cost money, very little is reused mostly block crank, heads and manifolds,
valves,seats.springs and followers all changed out.you have rocker woes, cam to change, oil pump the list goes on but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,done once and they are right, now these are basic and brutal lumps and were easy to do well relatively , but the dg/df etc another headache, and several £k to do right and the re conditioners,if they give a fixed price that seems attractive to get custom leaves them deciding what not to do to maintain their margin
mm

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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by ajsimmo »

Blimey, it's spooky reading this. I have a customer who had an almost identical experience with his TES big-bore. It ran rough and rattly, had low oil pressure problems, and never had the power that was promised. He ripped it out and went for a Vege recon, which was also carp and failed. He is now rebuilding it himself because he is a retired engineer and he can, and wishes he'd done that in the first place.
My input is that i did his LPG conversion (and no, it didn't cause either of his two engine failures!), and am now advising him on best suppliers for his engine parts.
Btw, for those who find such things intriguing, he is running Emerald engine management with full sequential injection and dual ignition maps. It was the rolling road session that revealed problems with the Vege, but it went very well on both fuels for a short while!
I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing/driving the finished product (and I'll have access to the maps 8-) ).
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AdrianC
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by AdrianC »

ajsimmo wrote:He is now rebuilding it himself because he is a retired engineer and he can
There might be scope for him supplementing his pension...

Seriously, I wonder if there's room for somebody to advertise rebuilds at "£X plus parts"?
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Re: TES engines bodged 2.2 bigbore rebuild failure

Post by lloydy »

There are people out there that will, I think simon at T3 evolution has said he can and would.. I had mine completely rebuilt, new EVERYTHING. Not for the fainthearted as bits do add up, but I wouldn't touch these so called recons with a barge pole.
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