Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!

[CJH]

Thanks Kev - I'll keep my eyes open.

In fact I've already found a real bargain. A snip at just 1103 Euro. I'm assuming it comes with the complete engine attached. Seriously - what am I missing? Is that the price for 10?

[shepster]

My pal shep fitted a DJ into an early cooling system, I don't think he bothered with it....several years later it has never been an issue.
If you really want to fit a cooler then do it right with a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate under the filter, coupled with a 9 row heat exchanger/radiator.

Thanks Kev. Shep's advice early in this thread was to try and plumb the cooler in, so I hadn't realised he hadn't bothered. I've seen that thread on using 20W50 to counter low oil pressures, so it crossed my mind that I might go that route instead, and fit oil temp and pressure gauges to keep an eye on things.

The Mocal sandwich plate+radiator though, assuming that's oil-to-air, seems like a better idea than cutting into my cooling pipes and adding more potential leaks! Where do people usually mount the radiator?

I didn't initially fit the cooler but have done now, as stated earlier you need the 2 specific cooler hoses.

[CJH]

as stated earlier you need the 2 specific cooler hoses.

Sorry Shepster - which cooler hoses do you mean? The ones Kev pointed out that need the later pump and thermostat with the extra spigots, or the ones I linked to for the automatic transmission cooler?

[Atomic]

Sorry to jump back a bit, but I've been away for a few days, and just caught up...

Camshafts are no longer available.

Yes they are: https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/0251090 ... waterboxer

Not cheap, but I just fitted one in my own DJ rebuild.

[CJH]

Good spot, thanks. Yes, not cheap, but nothing is on these engines. It IS genuine VW though.

[kevtherev]

Sorry to jump back a bit, but I've been away for a few days, and just caught up...

Camshafts are no longer available.

Yes they are: https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/0251090 ... waterboxer

I gladly stand corrected, lets hope crankshafts follow suit.

[CJH]

If you really want to fit a cooler then do it right with a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate under the filter, coupled with a 9 row heat exchanger/radiator.

As luck would have it, I've just agreed to buy a somewhat bigger cooler (235mm, 25 row) from a member on here.



It's got brackets to allow it to be mounted in front of the radiator.

So any thoughts on mounting it there? Pros and cons that I can think of:

Cons - that's a lot of pipework to get the oil from the engine all the way to the cooler. Is there a minimum hose diameter I should use to ensure the oil still pumps round OK?

Pros - it should certainly keep the oil cool! Sizewise it's probably overkill based on Kev's suggestion to use a 9 row cooler. And mounting it in front of the radiator means there'll be really good airflow when moving, PLUS it should benefit a little from the radiator fan if stuck in a slow moving queue (like the A30 'escape from Cornwall' on a summer's Saturday morning!). But a thermostatic sandwich plate will make sure the engine still warms up as quickly as before.

Has anyone else fitted a cooler up front?

I'm thinking I might fit this to my 1.9 so it's all ready for when the 2.1 goes in. Presumably the water temperature will stay lower too since it won't have to cool the oil all by itself.

[kevtherev]

Kin ell that's a bit OTT
Why go to the front?
When there is an ample supply of cool air coming down the vent
Here's Guru tencentlifes website with the vent cooler kit

http://www.vanistan.com/oil_cooler_kits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CJH]

Ah, that's useful to see those installation pictures, thanks. But the coolers in those photos look a similar size to the 25 row one I've bought (which is 193mm tall apparently). I'm going to have a poke around and see where the cooler will fit once I've got my hands on it.

[kevtherev]

Ah, that's useful to see those installation pictures, thanks. But the coolers in those photos look a similar size to the 25 row one I've bought (which is 193mm tall apparently). I'm going to have a poke around and see where the cooler will fit once I've got my hands on it.

yes it is bigger but a 9 row would be adequate that's all.
As you can see Chris has mounted the cooler diagonally on a mounting plate, not shown is the fan that can be fitted to the cooler matrix.
There was a big thread on this install when he first did it but I can't find it.
perhaps if you email him he can show you the pictures.

I have been meaning to do this version of cooling the oil via the vent for some time..

[CJH]

Interesting comments in the text below those pictures. For instance, that the factory oil-to-water heat exchanger is there for emissions, rather than for coping with peak oil temperatures. Also, that the fan is useful for when you're using high revs at low road speeds, such as off-roading - their on-road kit is fanless. So I guess I shouldn't really worry about queueing with the engine idling.

[CJH]

There was a big thread on this install when he first did it but I can't find it.
perhaps if you email him he can show you the pictures.

I'm not convinced this is the thread you're referring to but it had some useful bits in it. Lots of support for the need for an oil cooler in the 2.1DJ. I also saw that Axeman has his matrix mounted up the front with the radiator. I had to laugh at syncrosimon's mention of the A30.

[Atomic]

On my 2.2 DJ in the Beetle I use the early 1.9 cooling system without provision fôr the factory cooler/heat exchanger, so I use a MOCAL 80°c sandwich plate and a cooler up front. Oil temp rarely goes over 90°c. I use 1/2" ID hose. I also use a 30mm pump. In a bus setup you will need to clearance the outer edges of the pump cover slightly so the rear cradle will fit (I always use 30mm pumps, even on a stock engine).

[CJH]

Thanks Atomic - I didn't realise I could fit a bigger pump. Any idea how big the stock pump is? I can't picture what the pump cover will foul on, but is it just a matter of taking a grinder to the edges?

With a thermostatic plate and a long pipe run to the front, is it easy to empty the cooler and pipework during an oil change?

[Atomic]

I guess I ought to disconnect and drain and refill the oil lines to the cooler each time I change the oil , but it is a faff to do so, so I have only ever done that twice in 10-11 years on that engine. Most times I just drain the main sump only. I figured with the oil temp being kept under control better the oil ages less anyway so it won't matter so much if it's not all drained out. Also means I can do an oil change using just one can of oil - if I do the lines & cooler as well I need two cans, and I am a cheapskate...

Standard pump is 26mm gears. I use 30mm ones. I used this one last time https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/AC115150 as it is good quality and they had it in stock. They do list a cheaper version, but I'm not that much of a cheapskate!

It is just 3 edges of the cover that touch the rear cradle. I didn't realise until after I had built the engine for my Caravelle, and didn't want to take the pump cover off (new special oil nuts would be needed again of course) but just a careful trim around the edges with a grinder was easy and took just a minute or so. Hold up the cradle to the block with the pump in and you can see where it 'just' touches. Alternatively I could have used some washers on the bolts between rear-cradle and crankcase.