Starter motor getting too hot

[han&smudge]

Hi,
Can anybody help...I'm going to France in my water cooled 1990 t25 on Friday. However since I've had it (2years) it's suffered with struggling to start when it gets hot. I was hoping to get it sorted before going and just spent a lot of money on it, but the starter motor is getting so hot it stops working and needs an hour or so to cool down, then it starts fine. Does anyone else suffer with thus problem? I know it's partly due to the location of the starter motor, but is there anyway of preventing it from getting so hot? I've had 3 different starter motors on the van: the original, reconditioned original and as I've just had it converted from an auto to manual I've had a third starter motor, so I don't think it's the actual starter motor, it's more to do with it getting so hot.
Let me know if you have any advice,
Thanks

[ghost123uk]

They don't normally get hot. When working correctly they should fire up in a couple of seconds, engine hot or cold.

Two questions :-

What engine have you got (petrol or Diesel)?

Have you changed the starter motor's shaft support bush in the bell-housing ?

[han&smudge]

It's a petrol. No I haven't changed the shaft support bush in the bell housing. The thermostat has been checked this morning and is working. Was going to change it/take it out but the 4th bolt is stuck in and just spinning. I've had the cooling system flushed last week and new coolant added. When driving at speed the temp gauge sits half way, then just creeps over when in traffic. The fan does cut in so that's working.
The starter motor gets so hot you can't touch it. I can drive it for around an hour without it getting too hot, but anything longer and I struggle to start it again until it cools down.
Thanks for your suggestion- I'm no mechanic but like to try and understand what's going on. What will changing the shaft support bush in the bell housing do? My mechanic has it today so could look at that but he's no vw specialist. My vw guy is having it back tomorrow, he's the one who just did the gearbox conversion and put one of his starter motors on it.
Cheers

[Plasticman]

if the motors getting hot then forgive me but it only works when your cranking it,so is there maybe something else amiss like electrical or is it continually engaged and being driven by the engine as 3 motors cant have the same fault....i hope,,,
mm

[itchyfeet]

too hot to touch is about 55 degrees so it maybe all starters get hot after an hour bolted to a hot engine in summer, never got under and touched mine after an hours drive.

I'm just wondering if that's not the problem but the heat causing a bad cable or earth to fail

Try cleaning up the earth strap at the gearbox and get your mechanic to use jump leads direct to the starter main power bolt and from there to the trigger wire when hot to see if it starts, if it does it's probably a corroded cable.

[T25Convert]

My starter is also too hot to comfortably touch after an hour's driving, along with the rest of the bell housing.

I have always put this down to the fact that the engine is bolted to the gearbox, so just by conduction the whole lot heats up a fair bit.

I'd second Itchyfeet's view that the most likely issue is tired cabling - mine is sluggish when hot, but fine when given a direct feed from a jumper cable to the terminals.

Check your gearbox earth and then the starter feed wire. Chances are one or both of them are crusty and need replacement.

Cheers,

Alex

[ghost123uk]

As above = all good info I thought you meant the starter got overly hot due to excessive cranking for ages trying to get the engine started.

What will changing the shaft support bush in the bell housing do?

You are supposed to change that bush whenever you have to replace the starter motor. The starter only has one bearing in it to support the shaft, the other end is supported by that bearing in the bell-housing. (that is why you should never test the starter off the van). It wears and can cause the starter to be sluggish in operation. Lots of info in our "wiki" about this. See here = https://club8090.co.uk/wiki?ti ... bush&go=Go" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; But I would follow the advice from the others first on checking all those very heavy starter related cables and earths.

[han&smudge]

Thanks all, we will check all the cables and earths. Fingers crossed!

[han&smudge]

All cables and wires checked and working/not corroded, new thermostat =working, radiator bled. In the engine bay there are some brackets with nothing attached to them. Somebody has said that they should have metal guards/shrouds/plates which actually act to cool the van down by possibly redirecting the heat generated by the engine and it looks like they go above the exhaust acting as a guard/barrier from the heat in the exhaust. Anyone know what these are/whether they exist?!/where I can get them from?
Thanks

[Plasticman]

Post up some picks it really does help
mm

[lefty67]

All cables and wires checked and working/not corroded, new thermostat =working, radiator bled. In the engine bay there are some brackets with nothing attached to them. Somebody has said that they should have metal guards/shrouds/plates which actually act to cool the van down by possibly redirecting the heat generated by the engine and it looks like they go above the exhaust acting as a guard/barrier from the heat in the exhaust. Anyone know what these are/whether they exist?!/where I can get them from?
Thanks

I think your possibly describing tinware which are found on air cooled engines.

[han&smudge]

Thanks, Yes I think you're right about the tinware, I've just looked on ebay! So they're only for air cooled...would they do the same job on water cooled or is it assumed you don't need them?

[Plasticman]

picks please
mm

[han&smudge]

Will take some pics tomorrow. It's going back to my vw mechanic in the morning, so I'll ask him to shed some light on the situation
Thanks

[ghost123uk]

There is supposed to be a heat shield above the silencer, but even if it was missing it wouldn't cause your problem.