Double Whammy issues in France - starter and overheating

[discipleofsketch]

A year to the day since I was last broken down on a remote campsite in France, I am broken down on a remote campsite in France.

So, the main issue is overheating. I did about 1500 miles road testing my "new" engine before setting off for france, and the temp gauge always stayed bang in the middle, occasionally creeping to the right of the LED on long uphill stretches.

Fully loaded last night on the way to Plymouth I noticed the temp was a bit higher than usual, and the same today on a run from Roscoff. As I pulled up to a roundabout the temp gauge shot up, pulled over in a garden centre car park where the pressure cap let off a large amount of steam.

Let it cool down and added some coolant, then thought i'd go through the full bleed procedure, and to add to the fun, my intermittent starter issue* is now a full-time issue it seems. Pretty sure it's the starter itself as I can hear a definite click from the solenoid when the ignition is turned, and doing the 12 volt feed straight to solenoid causes the same click, but nothing from the starter at all. I remember some advice about sticking a screwdriver/ spanner straight across the terminals on the back of the starter? I haven't tried that yet for fear of electrocution!

So, with my wife at the wheel and me and my 10-year-old son pushing we managed to bump start it. A few miles down the road the temp started to creep up, so limped to a supermarket and bought some ready-mix coolant. put some more coolant in, another bump start and then did some bleeding at the radiator, but really couldn't switch the engine off again. Idling, the temp was fine, but as soon as I hit the road the temp wandered right up again, so we limped it to the aire where i'm writing this...

So, now deciding what to do - tomorrow I will try to work out if the water pump is seized/ belt slipping, and look for any other leaks (none spotted so far, up to this point it hadn't lost a drop of coolant since the engine swap). I'll also try bleeding again, but this is tricky with the only way of starting being a bump start (and bloody hell is this bus heavy!).

Just looking for sympathy really, but any advice gratefully received Oh and yes I have european breakdown cover, but hoping I can avoid having to make that call..

* yes, I should have got that sorted before I left but ran out of time, and it hadn't re-occurred since putting a new battery in.

[what2do]

Sounds as though you've enough knowledge already to be doing a few preliminary tests. Doesn't help much though when you're in a crisis and the outcome is unknown. Whatever it turns out to be, I hope it can be rectified and doesn't scupper the family holiday. When I was student in France, the starter went on my old car. I could get away with parking on a small incline everyday and bump start it because it was light and a cracking starter. Can't see you being that lucky due to the weight of 'em,


Bridging the starter contacts won't harm you but the same can't be said for you pants! Done it many times on tractors, it's flipping 'orrible! But at least you know you can if you must or the missus will be game for a one shot, after that I doubt she'll volunteer again!

Replaced my starter recently with a borrowed one and the problem disappeared BUT I don't know if it wasn't just a case of the old starter not earthing properly. Perhaps when I changed starters, it was just a case of the new one being cleaner on the mating face or the tightening of the bolts remaking the contact better than before. Who knows? But if nobody suggests anything else, you could undo the two bolts and give it a good wiggle once you've had supper and a glass of claret.

Hold on, I had a starting issue yesterday that I posted about. I had a two minute tinker in the engine bay, wiggled the trigger wire, saw how corroded it was and thought it best to leave it be and forget it!! Later that day, there was no starter action, just a click. Panicked and it took me a few minutes to realise that it may well be what I had touched hours earlier. Gave it another wiggle - voila, starter motor spun. Give it wiggle, nothing to be lost by the that.

Anyways, enough reading this distracting message. Get back to your wine and then reach for the socket set before sunset!

Let us know how yup get on ( please don't invite us round to view your holiday snaps though).

Ps. What's your itinerary ONCE the van is up and running?

[Hacksawbob]

Park facing down hill! I feel for you buddy!

Just a few observations.
Belt slipping you would have heard it squeel, you can see the pump pulley turning.
stuck thermostat?
If the bolts look good you can remove it so cooling is always going to the rad, it will take longer for the engine to get up to temp. maybe someone can confirm this is OK but Im pretty sure it is for short term warm weather driving. Typically the bolts will be rusted to buggery though !

Is the Rad getting warm all the way to the top? Are both the pipes getting warm all the way to the front

Is your rad fan not coming on? You can by pass the sensor with a couple of wires and ideally a high amp rated switch. or if your careful you can twist the wires together in the cab and have some tape nearby to cover them over so they don't earth on anything and start a fire. It's 12 volt so you wont get a shock but there is always the potential fire risk if live wires touch bare metal.

Get a block of wood and a hammer (or rock!) and give the starter a sharp thwack to unstick it (check van not in gear if your head is near the wheel!)

I'm off to the a*** end of Ireland at the end of the week so hopefully earned some Karma!

[discipleofsketch]

Sounds as though you've enough knowledge already to be doing a few preliminary tests. Doesn't help much though when you're in a crisis and the outcome is unknown. Whatever it turns out to be, I hope it can be rectified and doesn't scupper the family holiday. When I was student in France, the starter went on my old car. I could get away with parking on a small incline everyday and bump start it because it was light and a cracking starter. Can't see you being that lucky due to the weight of 'em,


Bridging the starter contacts won't harm you but the same can't be said for you pants! Done it many times on tractors, it's flipping 'orrible! But at least you know you can if you must or the missus will be game for a one shot, after that I doubt she'll volunteer again!

Replaced my starter recently with a borrowed one and the problem disappeared BUT I don't know if it wasn't just a case of the old starter not earthing properly. Perhaps when I changed starters, it was just a case of the new one being cleaner on the mating face or the tightening of the bolts remaking the contact better than before. Who knows? But if nobody suggests anything else, you could undo the two bolts and give it a good wiggle once you've had supper and a glass of claret.

Hold on, I had a starting issue yesterday that I posted about. I had a two minute tinker in the engine bay, wiggled the trigger wire, saw how corroded it was and thought it best to leave it be and forget it!! Later that day, there was no starter action, just a click. Panicked and it took me a few minutes to realise that it may well be what I had touched hours earlier. Gave it another wiggle - voila, starter motor spun. Give it wiggle, nothing to be lost by the that.

Anyways, enough reading this distracting message. Get back to your wine and then reach for the socket set before sunset!

Let us know how yup get on ( please don't invite us round to view your holiday snaps though).

Ps. What's your itinerary ONCE the van is up and running?

One possible cause of the starter issues is that the engine bay got liberally sprayed with coolant. I'll have a good clean up and wire wiggling in the morning. Will also try the spanner across terminal trick.

We are booked on a site further south from saturday - that will happen even if I have to hire a car and pick up some additional camping equipment - i've bought enough to survive a few nights without the van if need be.

[discipleofsketch]

Park facing down hill! I feel for you buddy!

Just a few observations.
Belt slipping you would have heard it squeel, you can see the pump pulley turning.
stuck thermostat?
If the bolts look good you can remove it so cooling is always going to the rad, it will take longer for the engine to get up to temp. maybe someone can confirm this is OK but Im pretty sure it is for short term warm weather driving. Typically the bolts will be rusted to buggery though !

Is the Rad getting warm all the way to the top? Are both the pipes getting warm all the way to the front

Is your rad fan not coming on? You can by pass the sensor with a couple of wires and ideally a high amp rated switch. or if your careful you can twist the wires together in the cab and have some tape nearby to cover them over so they don't earth on anything and start a fire. It's 12 volt so you wont get a shock but there is always the potential fire risk if live wires touch bare metal.

Get a block of wood and a hammer (or rock!) and give the starter a sharp thwack to unstick it (check van not in gear if your head is near the wheel!)

I'm off to the a*** end of Ireland at the end of the week so hopefully earned some Karma!

I have to confess I don't know where the thermostat is - I will identify it tomorrow, and check that and the radiator.

Any particular place to whack the starter? I was pathetically tapping it today with a large pair of mole grips (I don't have a hammer with me), but I couldn't get a decent swing at it, so good call on the rock and stick (maybe a rock and screwdriver...)

[AdrianC]

Is your rad fan not coming on?

This.

Did you get a new rad at the same time as the engine? Is the rad evenly hot all over, especially the corner with the fan switch? Is the fan running?

[marlinowner]

The starter problem could be a stuck solenoid, that's the smaller cylinder alongside the main body of the starter motor. If it is clicking then the connection to it is OK, try hitting the solenoid itself, with whatever force you can apply.

[what2do]

Mallet, for hitting pegs into the ground. Do you have one? May do the trick.

[Ralf85]

That's so unlucky mate. I've been there a few times. As a veteran of 30 years over there and several break down problems (you name it, its happened to me) I would suggest chilling a bit and staying on your campsite. That will relieve the stress for you and your family (you are on holiday after all).
In the past I've got the family into a caravan or chalet on site and then either got the van into a garage recommended by someone local, or finished my holiday there and got the breakdown service to bring the van home on one occasion. They organised us a trip home by train. The van came home later. Just a thought. Best of luck mate. Let us know how you get on!
PS My experience of local garages in France has been brilliant over the years and the parts tend to arrive overnight from Germany!

[lloydy]

Thing is tdi's run so cool, it's unlikely you'll ever hear the fan run. ( I haven't in two years of running a tdi, inc steep long mountain passes)
Thermostat is dead easy to find, just behind the water pump. Black plastic elbow, inside that. Was it not changed when the engine was fitted? To be honest though, they normally fail open on theses engines.. (Pretty easy to change or remove)
When the engine is ticking over can you see coolant circulation in the main coolant tank? If not rev it a bit and see if you can. If nothing, maybe broken impeller on the water pump?

[pirate-pete]

If you can get your wife to try to start at the same time as you hit the back of the solenoid hopefully that will free it - at least until the next stop. With mine before I swapped the starter I would tap it on the solenoid with my lump hammer. Not with force but more a tap using the weight of the hammer. If no hammer then back of wheel brace or something like that. Then I would jump in the cab and the engine would fire up. Once stopped sometimes it would start sometimes not. Pain in backside to remove bikes and all the kit from back seat but my wife usually sits back there with the daughter so she got used to clearing the hatch space. Hoping yours is the same fault with sticky solenoid as once you get used to it at least you know you can get going again.

As for the overheating, I too agree with Lloydy the engines tend to run cool so like Hacksawbob says are the pipes to the radiator feeling hot?

And see if you can find a small garage too. I too have found them very helpful in the past in France and those I have had experience with show a lot more initiative in makeshift fixes than what I have experienced in UK.

Hope you get it sorted and enjoy the holiday.

[discipleofsketch]

OK an update. Van started on the button this morning, and has 9 times out of 10 since, so back to an intermittent starter problem for now. Decided to stay here another night, and I have spent most of the day working on the van - removed the thermostat and bled the system multiple times. Initially there was no heat at the pipes near the radiator, but now both pipes are getting hot. Temperature still goes a bit higher than i'd like, but on the last test run the temp came down nicely as I got up to speed. I'll take it for a proper test run later.

I've yet to observe the radiator fan coming on, as today after bleeding the temp never got high enough - but for the purposes of emergency bodging if I need it, which wires would I bridge? I presume it's an old style diesel radiator and fan, but internet connection here is too slow to upload a photo.

So test drive later decides if we carry on under our own steam(!) tomorrow or seek help...

[AdrianC]

I've yet to observe the radiator fan coming on, as today after bleeding the temp never got high enough - but for the purposes of emergency bodging if I need it, which wires would I bridge?

Have you found the fan switch? Is it two- or three-wire? If it's three, one is +12v. Have you got a test light or multimeter?

If not, trial and error isn't going to be hard. Call 'em A, B and C. Pair A & B up. If that doesn't do anything, pair A & C. Then B & C. One of the three combos should give you low fan, one high fan. If nothing works, either the feed's duff or the motor's duff. If only one speed works, the low-speed resistor's duff.

[ghost123uk]

removed the thermostat and bled the system multiple times. Initially there was no heat at the pipes near the radiator, but now both pipes are getting hot.

This has got to be good, the fact that the pipes were not getting hot, and now they are My money is on a duff stat. As said ^^^ it is not a problem to run it around for a while at this (hot) time of year without one.

[marlinowner]

To put the fan on continuously, you short out the thermoswich on the radiator. If you have a single speed fan you just disconnect the two wires from the switch and join them together. With a two speed fan there are three wires, depending on how you connect them either the fan stays off, comes on at low speed, or at high speed.