Poor road handling.

[rob1927]

Hello all, could any one share their experiences of road handling in a T3?

I've just got mine back on the road, the first journey was nerve racking as there were high winds. But even when driving in no wind at all conditions there feels like theres something amiss.

All is fine at lower speeds but when upto speed(60-70mph) it feels like the vans got a bit of a mind of its own and is a little difficult to control. It feels like if theres a very slightly uneven road surface then the van wants to go its own way, the sod!

All seems fine when braking and when i release the steering wheel theres no signs of the van 'dragging' left or right. I know i'm driving a box with wheels on it and its never gonna handle like a BMW but i reckon theres something not right.

Any ideas of what i should be looking at?

Does it sound like an alignment issue or maybe the rubber bushes? Could it be play in the steering wheel? Tyre pressures are all spot on. Shock absorbers a fairly new.


Any advice appreciated.

[CovKid]

Anti-roll bar - check the droplinks and bushes at each end very carefully. It'll handle like a boat in rough seas if they're worn/broken. Round corners it'll be like a tired armchair and you'll find yourself hitting the brakes in advance. Also wheel alignment.

[rob1927]

Cheers covkid, i'll have a gander tomorrow, is it a difficult job to put right if i need to replace the bushes?

[Wychall]

Also check the bushes on the steering rack. Replacing mine meant I used one lane on the motorway instead of all three.

[CovKid]

Wheres your sense of adventure Brian.

He's right though, wear there can also play havoc too. Droplinks not too bad as long as not actually broken. Most common cause on a T25 thats been largely ignored underneath. Lots of info if you search on here. Did mine - transformed handling. I fitted powerflex bushes (more expensive) for anti-rollbar - made sense, but used stock bushes for droplinks.

[rob1927]

Thanks, much appreciated.

I'll have a look tomorrow, but to be honest i think its definatly gonna need new bushes before the van ends up in the bushes at the side of the road!

I reckon i can change the bushes myself, i'm guessing with new bushes fitted the geometry will be out and the wheels will need realigning?

If this is the case id be a bit worried to do this myself, is alignment possible without specialist gear?

Cheers,

Rob.

[colinthefox]

is alignment possible without specialist gear?

Yes indeed, if you're willing to take it slow and do some simple arithmetic. You'll need an assistant.

I use a larger caliper thing made out of some old floor boards screwed and glued into a "C" shape which is wider than the front wheels by a couple of inches. A screw sticking out of each arm makes it easy to measure the relative distance between the wheel rims with a tape measure. So that's the toe-in taken care of.

To centre the steering, with the steering wheel pointing straight ahead, use a piece of string against the front tyre walls to ensure that both front wheels point to the same relative point on the rear wheels. Adjust one track rod end in and one out till it's right.

To measure camber I have a piece of ply cut into an accurate 3/4/5 triangle to give an accurate right angle. (or a builders roofing square would be good too). On a level floor this can be used, again with a tape measure to set the camber.

After each adjustment, roll the van back and forward a few times to settle the steering.

I'll do some piccies if you want, but not tonight eh!

I have used these methods on all my vehicles for 20 years without a problem but if you're not confident, then please get it checked by a skilled technician.

[E D I T] I've never bothered with castor angle, as it's more or less fixed anyway[/E D I T

[CovKid]

It shouldn't affect geometry (or at least make it no worse) but as Colinthefox says, check the toe. If you look under the wheels forum, we're talking about it in there too.

[colinthefox]

[E D I T] I've never bothered with castor angle, as it's more or less fixed anyway[/E D I T]

Sorry, this was wrong. On the van it is adjustable, to an extent. I should have said:-

I've never bothered with castor angle. As long as you put everything back exactly as it came off, the castor angle won't be affected enough to make any difference.

[rob1927]

Hello all, thanks for all your replays and advice, i had look today under the van, theres more bushes than sherwood forest under there!

Heres three fotos, perhaps you could throw some light on the terminology for the parts? The fotos are of my van today.

1.

Is this the antiroll bar bushes that you mean? Theres a split in both of these but it looks like a manufactured split as it occurs at exactly the same place in both bushes, i'm gonna renew with power flex replacements either way i think.

2.

Is this foto the steering rack bush? This is by far the worst of them all as far i can see, it's badly cracked as is the same bush for the opposite wheel, the bushes directly behind these seem a little better for wear but i'll definatly be replacing these with new stuff.

3.

And would these be the drop link bushes that you mean? These seem to be cracked too so will replace with new.

Covkid did you mean check the actual droplinknks themselves as well as the bushes? They seem to be ok, the previous owner did a thorough job with the underseal so no visible signs of corrosion i'll have a good poke around with a screwdriver or similar though to be sure. It looks like the nuts bolts are in good nick too to remove the other stuff too so it should hopefully be straightforward(famous last words!)

Colinthefox if you could send some fotos that would be great but no rush, its gonna be at least a week till i get the parts here in Finland, i'm gonna hopefully use all power flex stuff, just shelled out for gear linkage parts too, and need summer tyres!

Thanks again,

Rob.

[nevill3]

Your photo number 1 is the anti roll bar bush.
Photo 2 is the Radius rod bushes, you will also need the metal sleeves that sit inside the inner and outer bush (I think powerflex usually supply the sleeve in their kit)
Photo 3 is the bottom half of the drop link, there is a bush at the top too, you will need to measure the size of the antiroll bar because there are different diameters, 19mm or 21mm, see here for all the bushes....Brickwerks Powerflex kit
You should also replace the nuts and bolts too.

There is an ebay listing with a really good diagram to help you decide which bushes to replace.


From here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFLEX-SUS ... 483c49a6d9

I have just replaced lots of my front bushes with the powerflex ones from Brickwerks, I had to leave the inner front lower track control arm bush because I couldn't get it out without a press. The rest of the bushes were fairly straight forward, my main problem was getting my radius arm off but you should have the later version which is easier.

Good luck

[CovKid]

Definately do antirollbar bushes (1st photo) as they're shot. If you can afford powerflex, fit them as it'll help stiffen the front end and superior in that role.

In photo 3, the vertical bar in the pic is a drop link - check that they are secure and washers haven't come adrift. There are two dished washers and two bushes per side. You could fit powerflex bushes here but its not an area that'll make masses of difference (at least not as much as those in photo 1) although they will generally last longer than stock rubber ones. If they look in reasonable condition and nothing is loose - leave them. Top bushes on droplink may or may not be servicable - they seem to last much longer than the lower ones at any rate.

Looks as though the antirollbar is indeed the culprit. A job within the capability of most people. Have fun. You should find that a more positive response is felt through the front end. You can nose around at steering rack bushes after that.

Ah, and photo 2. Mine are like that and I have new ones ready to go on. I'd do them if you have time in which to do them, but read up on them first as they're more involved and you'll need to mark them before replacing them.

[rob1927]

Thanks very kindly chaps, some great info there, the plan of attack is do the bushes my self, and after reading covkids post in the wheels and tyres forum i'm gonna try and do the alignment and setting up myself, if it feels beyond my competence level i'll definatly take it to a local garage. New linkage parts arrived today from BW's i'll be on with that this week and get the bushes ordered after the weekend and get on with those.

I'll let you know how it all goes, thanks again for your help it's much appreciated.

[colinthefox]

OK here's some pictures as promised.

First one is the wooden caliper for checking the toe, in position for use. Inside dimensions are 180cm x 60cm



One end is held against one wheel rim with a gap at the other side like this.



Then use a tape to measure the gap and work out whether the wheels are toed in or out. Keep adjusting, rolling back and forth and re-checking.



To measure the camber cut a 3/4/5 triangle from thin plywood and cut away bits to clear tyres and centre cap etc. but to touch top and bottom rims. I set the wheels vertical.



I haven't done photos of centering the steering with the string for two reasons:-
1. It's only a bit of string.
2. I have front mudflaps fitted which get in the way.

[colinthefox]

I've just read CovKids post in wheels and tyres, which I should have read before, and I like the broom handle method! My caliper thingy is useful if there's stuff in the way, like bodywork/engine/gearbox on most ordinary cars, it's slightly easier to measure the gaps from outside the vehicle, and you can use it on the rear wheels, but the principles are very much the same.

With the plywood triangle method for camber checking, the floor doesn't have to be exactly level, just flat. With the spirit level method the floor doesn't have to be exactly flat, just level. So take your pick!