WBX head seal job = Get a garage to do it ?

[itchyfeet]

I suspect if you use a good concentration of coolant the upper seal will work for a long time, its purpose imo is to stop coolant corroding the compression seal and to stop tge liners corroding to the head

the big problem is these cooling systems leak and people dont refil with the correct ratio of coolant so the seal mating surfaces corrode and its then a slipery slope to seal failure.

[ghost123uk]

Re getting a garage to do it. Firstly, Ken, I don't care how much Itchy is joshing you (joshing = English slang for having a "dig" in a light hearted friendly way) about lower seals, if you were in the UK I would be at your doorstep with my van (I am sure you offer a warranty on your work).

Reason I am posting this =

I have just had a pm from someone who, like I "am/was" planning, drove a long way to Elite, and had a "new" engine fitted, only for it to break down on the way home, (finding head seals pi$$ing coolant, plus an oil leak and the dreaded exhaust stud stripped and "over drilled" coolant leak). Not at all re-assuring. Yet others, some well known on here have had no issues and some have used them more than once (owning several vans, not "come backs").

My drip has slowed to the point it doesn't leave any mark on the road, so I may hold off a while whilst I consider the options. In line 4 GTi perhaps I would need a one stop shop for that though

Just wish there was a totally reliable place for this sort of thing. Shame Brickwerks / Simon (link for Ken) doesn't like WBX's

[Simon Baxter]

Trouble is, everything for them is expensive.
We do them here, head seals that is but if it is anything more than head seals then I think it's better value just to put an engine in.
We have to guarantee our work, we can't do that with second hand parts so we use new parts.
If you need a head, a barrel or a piston and the labour then it's just not worth it.
Customers book them in, we tell them about the head studs and the cost of spares and advise them they may need an engine.
We then strip it, if we can fix it we will, if we can't or the total of the parts is too much we simply get the customer to buy a engine and get it delivered to us.
I've wasted too many hours fixing problems with "recon" engines and lost out big style we simply don't supply them anymore, we get the customer to find a supplier they are happy with, keeps us out of the picture then and we don't feel bad when the "new" engine doesn't work as it should [as usually what happens]
The amount you get for labour from these engine companies for doing warranty work for their mess up is pitiful, and we loose out doing other paying work because of it.

[ghost123uk]

Have you ever considered offering a "one stop shop" service for WBX to GTi conversions ? (just thinking out aloud)

[dbz864]

Like John (ghost) says im amazed that someone dosnt do a drive in conversion for these engines,ie gti or similar.I know there are people but as far as I can gather they charge mega bucks.Plenty of work for someone, as these vans get older its going to get worse.
My thouights on elite are, they seem to have been in business for a while, so think of the fact, if tthey keep getting that many comebacks would they still be in business? Would they want to keep building them? My guess is that the vast majority of the engines are ok! As usual you only get to hear of the bad ones and before anyones thinks! ive never met or done business with elite.
Try guaranteeing a van, never mind just a engine!

[ghost123uk]

My thoughts on elite... My guess is that the vast majority of the engines are ok.... usually you only get to hear of the bad ones

This is true of course, even on here folk rarely post to say "I've had no problems with my van this year". They only post when they need a hand or an opinion on a problem. Elite's ebay feedback is very good too. I am still a bit nervous about taking mine to them to do the head seal

Remember (and note to self) I did get a pm from a regular on here (who prefers to be anonymous in this) who has used Elite several times on their "collection" of vans and has not a bad word to say about them

[Simon Baxter]

GTI Is a simple conversion, finding the second hand parts isn't, it's time consuming.
If people bring all the parts, we'll do them but at the moment we have 6 weeks worth of bookings left before September... We just don't have the time to be sourcing second hand stuff for customers...
Going back to the WBX though.
To rebuild a WBX properly would cost £1000's.
People in this country simply wouldn't pay what it costs to do the job with new parts so that's half the reason why we are in this position.
An industry has grown up out of refreshing these engines, but I'm sure half the time they are stripped and cleaned and put back together with the bare minimum to last the warranty period.
I've done several that have had low oil pressure from installation, cracked heads, strange noises, re-drilled exhaust studs off centre so the exhaust won't line up..

[Simon Baxter]

GTI Is a simple conversion, finding the second hand parts isn't, it's time consuming.
If people bring all the parts, we'll do them but at the moment we have 6 weeks worth of bookings left before September... We just don't have the time to be sourcing second hand stuff for customers...
Going back to the WBX though.
To rebuild a WBX properly would cost £1000's.
People in this country simply wouldn't pay what it costs to do the job with new parts so that's half the reason why we are in this position.
An industry has grown up out of refreshing these engines, but I'm sure half the time they are stripped and cleaned and put back together with the bare minimum to last the warranty period.
I've done several that have had low oil pressure from installation, cracked heads, strange noises, re-drilled exhaust studs off centre so the exhaust won't line up..

[ghost123uk]

GTI Is a simple conversion, finding the second hand parts isn't, it's time consuming

I bet somewhere there will be a list of what is required.

"The list" (as they say in the camping section)

An "AAG" engine (is that the most common one to use ?)
Cross member off a Diesel T25
Bellhousing off a Diesel T25
Sump off a Diesel T25
Oil pump pick up off a Diesel T25

Exhaust manifold ?
Exhaust ? (custom I suspect)
Fuel pump, type ?

[Simon Baxter]

What he said. ^^
Trouble is that there really isn't anyone rebuilding them properly!
Little to no choice, plus if there was the majority wouldn't pay, you just have to look how many are roller paining their vans to understand the culture of cobbling things together with cable ties, washing machine drain hose and chocolate radiators.
Some people buy the vans because they want a T3, some just want a camper and would be equally as suited in a Fiat or Renault.
Horses for courses.

[itchyfeet]

chocolate radiators..

[ghost123uk]

Just as a matter of interest = Go-Westy engine prices (in the USA) = http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_category.php?id=82" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (they reckon they have a less than 5% failure rate)

Their least expensive motor, a 2.2Ltr, 95 hp, 130 ft. lbs unit, would cost ~£2500 in English money (but of course they are in the USA ) - I would pay that much with no hesitation if I needed a "proper" replacement engine for my van. Plus there are many on here that would buy "proper" engines if they were available. (You know, all the Westy Cali/Atlantic/BlueStar/WhiteStar/LLE brigade, plus the Syncro brigade, you know, the ones who have lots of money )

[300CE]

Hi John,

If he's still about, it might be worth getting in touch with Marco Mansi to see if there's anything he can do for you:

http://www.marcomansiperformance.com/products.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ghost123uk]

Hi John, If he's still about, it might be worth getting in touch with Marco Mansi to see if there's anything he can do for you: http://www.marcomansiperformance.com/products.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very good idea

I have emailed him.

]His website "indicates" he does at least supply "proper" replacement engines from £1795, so for those of us who want a no compromise solution to WBX problems (and have lots on money or a good credit card rating) then this could be what "we" have been looking for. At least the guy has a good reputation and at that price it is not far away from the Vege/Remtek prices (iirc) with the bonus that he makes several improvements.

If he can do me a "proper" reconditioned/improved DG with a solid warranty I might well go that route.

[kevtherev]

My opinion, try to find a rebuilder that does a great job on the waterboxer. They may charge a bit more, but it is well worth it in the long run. If the customers don't have the money, I encourage them to sell the van to someone else. If you can't afford to maintain it properly what is the point of owning it? Putting in low quality rebuilds just perpetuates the false sense that the OE motors were never reliable. Yes they can be very reliable. If you take the time to rebuild them right.

Conversions are a mixed bag. Usually they wind up being a science experiment that never fully comes to an end. It really depends on how good of a job the person doing it initially does. Not my idea of a reliable vehicle.

Just my opinion.

..,.and one I find I absolutely agree with.

Usually they wind up being a science experiment that never fully comes to an end.

That made me laugh.