Worst rebuild?

[T25Convert]

Hello,

Pretty much finished rebuilding my engine now, so attention turned to the interim engine I bought from a bloke off here.

It has newish head seals and shiny head nuts, but ran badly, had low oil pressure at idle and smoked like a chimney, so was keen to see what the insides looked like.

Outside:



First clue it might be a bit of a mongrel - DF heads on a later case.

One snapped head stud:



Worryingly, the corrosion was about 50% of the way through, might have replaced this if I'd been rebuilding!

Next up, all the piston rings had been installed with the gaps in a very neat straight line - you could see the oil staining up the side of the piston - found my smoke source!



The heads themselves had lovely new head seals, held on with clear silicone sealant (think bathroom and kitchen rather than automotive) :



Split the case and this fell out:



No 2 Main bearing, well and truly mangled. Looking at the back shows:



Yep - the bearing was fitted so it blocked the oilway drilling, so No 2 main ran pretty much dry.

A list of broken / badly fitted things so far:

1) Heads fitted with silicone sealant
2) One liner had two bottom seals, the old one and a new one over the top
3) Liners ridged at top, so all top piston rings broken
4) Piston ring gaps aligned
5) No 2 Main fitted so it can't oil
6) Bits of stray silicone sealant all over the place

Despite all this it still ran (albeit smokey and with low oil pressure) - just goes to show how bad things can get before it stops working altogether!

I'd love to know who did the rebuilt - a DIY or 'professional' job?!

Looking forward to getting the cam and crank out to see what the remaining bearings look like, and to see if there is anything other than the heads I can save!

Cheers,

Alex

[ghost123uk]

It's one thing to "have a go" even if you are not an experienced expert, but that looks like a total bodge I mean, why would you If you didn't know how to fit rings and shells properly already, you would at least look it up ! And you would buy a gasket set that already has the correct sealant, you just wouldn't use ordinary silicone sealer would you !! Fancy going to all that effort removing, re-building, re-fitting and ending up with that

Amazing

[T25Convert]

There was one thing that may be of particular interest to you at the moment though Ghost123.

The seating area for the bottom liner seal was pretty heavily corroded, one liner had two sealing rings on it and one other liner seal was crimped, suggesting it was at least partially trapped during installation, but there was no oil/water mixing.

Adds weight to the idea that you could get away with not doing the bottom liner seals, seems they can seal pretty well even with rubbish preparation!

I'm baffled by this engine - shells, seals and rings amount to a fair few quid, why just ram them, in?!

Cheers,

ALex

[itchyfeet]

And you would buy a gasket set that already has the correct sealant,

the kit would also come with lower liner seals, you wouldn't just use the old ones

Seriously that's awful, but I have just seen worse bodging and a second hand engine I got off somebody recently
it was sold as duff and for spares so I didn't pay too much
The story was engine seals went on holiday, local garage fixed it and it failed on the journey home, owner gets cheesed off and sells the van with a duff engine, new owner gets a replacement I buy the old one.

So first off the sump is full of mayo
I find one head stud was previously snapped and siliconed back into the hole with clear silicone
On removing the heads the water jacket seals were brand new but totally dry not even the luxary of clear bathroom sealant.
Compression seals were obviously old and reused
Top liner seals were old and reused, some were totally missing
lower liner seals were old and reused ( the source of the mayo)
one head and the block has chisel marks where somebody tried to remove the head? not sure why a chisel is required.
Both engine heads are badly eroded from where it's bee driven with water entering the barrel while being driven.

Now remember if the story is correct this was a garage that did this, probably they ordered a head gasket and got a water jacket seal and thought that was enough.

[T25Convert]

I find one head stud was previously snapped and siliconed back into the hole with clear silicone

Now that takes bodging to a whole new level!!

I am slightly in awe of the lengths people will go to to avoid doing the job properly!

Alex

[Dazco]

What colour bathroom sealant do you guys recommend if not the clear. I've heard that the pale blue is good for sticking snapped off studs back into bores and that mahogany brown is ok ish for the head.
Wonder if you could mix the two together to do everything .

[itchyfeet]

And you would buy a gasket set that already has the correct sealant,

the kit would also come with lower liner seals, you wouldn't just use the old ones

Seriously that's awful, but I have just seen worse bodging and a second hand engine I got off somebody recently
it was sold as duff and for spares so I didn't pay too much
The story was engine seals went on holiday, local garage fixed it and it failed on the journey home, owner gets cheesed off and sells the van with a duff engine, new owner gets a replacement I buy the old one.

So first off the sump is full of mayo
I find one head stud was previously snapped and siliconed back into the hole with clear silicone
On removing the heads the water jacket seals were brand new but totally dry not even the luxary of clear bathroom sealant.
Compression seals were obviously old and reused
Top liner seals were old and reused, some were totally missing
lower liner seals were old and reused ( the source of the mayo)
one head and the block has chisel marks where somebody tried to remove the head? not sure why a chisel is required.
Both engine heads are badly eroded from where it's bee driven with water entering the barrel while being driven.

Now remember if the story is correct this was a garage that did this, probably they ordered a head gasket and got a water jacket seal and thought that was enough.

So for all you bodging fans...

Clear silicone is the sealant of chioce as you cant see it, white or brown would be noticed, look its invisible



as Renton would say this dry water jacket seal, missing top liner seal and chisseled block is beautifully *ucking illustrated by this pic



So for all you lower liner seal bodgers you wont want to see the easy gudgeon pin removal tool so look away now

[ermie571]

Got a dg sitting in the garage with a sump full of mayo....


Think we are going to be brave and take it to bits!

notice I didn't say rebuild!!

Would kinda like to see what is inside!!

then...I'm gunna do away with bolts and use silicone sealant and gaffa tape to stick it back together. Seeing as I'm on a budget, I shall use the poundland variety.

Em
xx

[itchyfeet]

Got a dg sitting in the garage with a sump full of mayo....


Think we are going to be brave and take it to bits!

notice I didn't say rebuild!!

Would kinda like to see what is inside!!

then...I'm gunna do away with bolts and use silicone sealant and gaffa tape to stick it back together. Seeing as I'm on a budget, I shall use the poundland variety.

Em
xx

I have some used lower liner seals you can have, apparently they can be reused

[daysofthunder]

I have never rebuilt an engine before but this has given me the confidence to have a go myself

I`m amazed it was running at all

After all if you use the right parts tools and follow instructions how hard can it be ?

[Dazco]

Aldi have a special offer on blue tac at the minute, might be useful for sticking something together

[Sir Brixalot]

Fibreglassing over untreated rust and holes then concealing with lots of waxoil or similar is popular with bodgers

[ghost123uk]

Was that old one about putting sawdust in noisy gearboxes to quieten them just an urban myth ?

[Kent Joker]

It's got to be down to ignorance.

Nobody wants an unreliable engine . do they

But statements like "how hard can it be" can quite easily end up in a for sale sign in your bus.
I've also seen over the years some camper conversion and paint jobs, that the owner proudly tells you he did it him self and this seem to be enough of an excuse for the utter shoddy as "pooh" workmanship but as long as you did it yourself that seems to make it all ok.

I love seeing people have a go but at some point you have to realise you just need to pay a professional.

[ghost123uk]

True. I have re-built a good few engines in my time, F0rd x-flow, Lotus TC, Jag i6, Hillman Imp, Honda 500, Mini, Moggy 1000, BSA 500, BSA bantam, Lister Diesel, Lawnmowers, Chainsaw etc etc, but I cocked up on the WBX Cost me a LOT of time, hassle and money that job did Just before that another person (in the trade) had attempted to do it, they did not succeed in making it good, which resulted in cross words on both sides and a fall out Can be tricky a nest of vipers for sure.

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FORD, F O R D, F0rd, stupid swear filter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (should be changed that, it's just childish imho)