Toe In/Out Settings

[aerovolito]

I fitted a set of Go-Westy 1.5" lift springs to my hi-top Westy a few months ago along with a set of 16x7" steel wheels (37mm offset) and 215.65.16 M&S tyres. I took it for a re-alignment straight after but a few K's later and the outside edge of my tyres has started to scrub badly. I watched the tech do the alignment and everything was spot on. As the van sits high now we used the factory settings for an unladen panel van figuring it would come closest. However, my thinking is that none of the factory settings are really suitable. I see that Brickwerks have a toe-in/out chart for Syncros running at various heights.

Anybody have any experience/advice to share with me on this before I take it back to the shop for another re-alignment?

[bigherb]

The toe stays the same but the camber alters with ride hight. Raising the vehicle gives more positive camber making the tyres wear more on the outer edges.

[CovKid]

Thats me with negative camber then. Always seems to wear on the inside on drivers side. Tracking is fine. Seems to like going left though so maybe a complete check of all settings in order. In the States, they say the Vanagon is notorious for drifting off spec and not a lot of leeway, particularly if you're altering ride height. Unfortunately lots of people lower vans without giving a thought to the affect on the dynamics of wheel geometry. Not good when you've paid a fortune for tyres then discover they're being scrubbed away.

On the subject, been nosing at methods for setting camber correctly after replacing wishbone bushes recently and discovered its not as hard as I thought it might be. Just need a spirit level around the right length now and I can have a play. You do have to recheck toe again once you've altered camber though. It does affect it.

Toe is easy engough to set at home as long as you're on level ground and can roll the van forward a couple of times after adjustment to check its right. I do it the same way I did my bug - with a broom handle with a screw in the end. I always got it bang on using that method, no matter how crude it sounds.

[dumbo]

broom handle screw in end dont get it need more info please cheers simon

[aerovolito]

Thanks Bigherb. I'll investigate the camber setting. Like I said, it was spot on in the shop according to the settings the tech had on file for an unladen van.
Do you have any experience of the different camber settings for raised vans? Mine has a 1 1/2" lift and sits at the upper limit of travel even with driver.

[CovKid]

Simon,
You use the broom handle with a screw in one end (basically an adjustable length)so it will fit the distance between front inner wheel rims across the width of the vehicle. By checking the gap at the front leading edge of the rim compared to the same span but at the back of rim, you can then calculate with a fair degree of accuracy, whether you're toe in or toe out and by how much - and adjust accordingly. Think of it as an adustable/expanding ruler. I'm a bit old/lazy now and more inclined to let the garage do it but when I've set toe that way in the past, its always been spot on.

I've seen others use a tape measure but I wouldn't recommend it as you can be a few mil out with one of those.

If you use the broom handle (or suitable length of wood cut to just span the distance minus say 1/2") with screw to make up any final adjustment, you place it between rims at front at the same point each side with wheels straight ahead, undo screw until the whole thing just touches both rims, then measure length and write it down. Do the same to rear front rim and write it down - theres your toe settings.

It'll show whether the distance is greater or smaller. Roll the vehiicle forward around half a wheel turn and recheck for consistency. Best done on level ground but surprisingly its very accurate - unless you've got a very badly buckled wheel in which case toe is the least of your probs.

I've seem some expensive gadgets to do what the length of wood does but they're no more accurate. I've also reset vehicles where the toe had been set in a garage and discovered they were miles off. It could be that 'hand' adjustment/checking allows for slight variations between front wheels but in any event if you want to verify that toe is actually correct, its a good way to do it.

Old-school mechanics will be all too familiar with this method.

[Cableguy]

Aerovolito, Did you fit the Gw balljoint spacers as well?
Should give plenty of camber adjustment for the fronts from what I've read on the samba.
Is it all the tyres?

[dumbo]

cheers covkid thanks for your help.... me just thick mate thanks again i like learning... it allways good to know these things cheers simon

[CovKid]

Not a prob Simon. To be fair, not everyone knows the stick method but all cars were done that way at one time. We may have more advanced cars these days but wheels are wheels and the principles remain the same. Either the toe is correct or its not and the stick can be used to get it right. Camber is another one - it can be done with a spirit level against the wheel rim but you need perfectly level ground to get an accurate reading.

[CovKid]

Picked up this today in the 99p store chain. 16" long - perfect size for setting camber and can be cut down to suit 14" rims if needed. Will report back. Gowesty suggest adding 200lbs to each front seat before setting camber so that final setting is close to reality on the road. Once I've sussed it, I'll bung it in the WIKI as a kind of duffers guide to setting camber but I need to replace some other suspension bushes first which will have an impact on camber - no point setting it until they're done.

Fortunately for a stock 2WD, camber is 0 degrees - ie perfectly vertical when loaded and in a straight line so providing the vehicle is on level ground and has weight in the front comparable to normal use for that vehicle, a spirit level can be used to set it correctly instead of a more complicated guage where negative or positive camber is the norm. Obviously camber can fall outside stock settings for a variety of reasons. Mine has notable negative camber on drivers side (ie bottom of wheel is further out than the top) which causes inside of tyre to wear faster so if I can get close to 0 degrees I should be able to fix that.



The T25 doesn't have a great settings range which can be made far worse with different wheels & tyres. Will see how I get on.

[rob1927]

Some great info there covkid, i'll be doing this myself i think after reading this.

[CovKid]

Also read this Rob: https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... r#p7983933" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;