WBX head seal job = Get a garage to do it ?

[Hacksawbob]

Just double check its not the core plugs on the underside of the carb inlet manifold weeping at high pressure and dripping round the engine block. looks for all the world like a head gasket leak! but as it dries up so quickly leaves no trace! get a kitchen towel and test on the underside of the carb inlet when hot for that sneaky devil!

[itchyfeet]

I have never done it but it occured to me if you are going to have the head done you could crack off each head stud nut one at a time and retighten with some dirco
You would then know if a head bolt was going to snap before shelling out on garage fees
Then put the money to a secondhand engine if one does
Also you get a feel for a tight nut in my experience all all the studs I snapped or have seen snapped ( 4 off) were all caused by seised nuts and not corroded studs
So if it doesn't crack off immediately than it will snap without heating and perhaps tapping, a garage may not take the time to do this as they make more money from a stud snap

[ghost123uk]

Just double check its not the core plugs on the underside of the carb inlet manifold weeping

Nah, sadly checked that already. With the pushrod cover off and the seal cleaned up (it looks in good nick from the outside though ) and dried off, you can see a pink drip forming right on the seal within a minute or so, with the area around it remaining dry.

Re stud failure. The way I see it is this, if summat does go wrong whilst at Elite, I would just have to bite the bullet and get them to fit a complete engine

On this "O" ring issue. I do find it odd that the guy in that youtube vid that Ralph posted up says he has done plenty of them without changing the O ring with no issues And he does seem to be an experienced WBX guy

When I next speak to Elite I will remind them that, if it should fail, I am a long way from them to get it sorted. Of course, when I mention it, they may say "Yes we always do the seal" (I wish I had thought to ask on the initial phone call ) My thinking is that they have so much experience in doing these engines, they should know. I mean they don't want the hassle of me ringing up a week later to tell them I have a problem. Garages hate "come backs" as they are then working at a loss.

It occurs to me, my engine is otherwise spot on. I wonder if, when I get there, I was to let them examine it, then make an offer on a simple swap at a discounted price. They could then work on my engine at their leisure.

[T25Convert]

Hi,

I'm no expert, as have only opened up one WBX. However, my slight puzzle with the screwdriver trick is how it would work in practice - here we have a shot of the case with the liners fully in (and new water jacket seal on!) - Look how far down the liners the tabs are, so to 'lock' against them the liners would have to move a fair way up.



and here we have a liner off with the bottom seal still attached:



You'll notice that it is virtually flat level with the ring it sits in. I would have thought that any small disturbance of this ring and it wouldn't seal again with any reliability. The new seal sits quite proud of the groove, giving plenty of elastic squash to seal up against.

Note that I have no issue with Elite not doing the seal (or indeed they might be!) just want to make sure you have the full picture before you go down this route, as I wouldn't like to see the next post is a tale of woe that the base seals have gone and Elite want another £300 to fix them as they weren't part of the original scope!

I don't think I would offer to swap an engine that is good (bar the small head leak) for one of their unknown offerings, given the very mixed reviews they get!

Good luck with it all!!

Cheers,

Alex

[T25Convert]

PS - this absolute bodge worked for me for 6 months leak free for £6 tube of Dirko....





Cheers,

Alex

[ghost123uk]

Re those "tabs". Yes, this is what I thought, you cannot "get at them" without lifting the head a bit and you would think that any slight movement of the liner would disturb the lower seal. I wish that American guy was on here so we can ask him about this.

I will phone Elite and ask them about whether they usually do the lower seal on a job like this, though the conversation on the subject is interesting (to us nerds anyway)

Alex, that Dirko (whatever that is) solution looks tempting But no, I want to be able to trust my van, it's bound to fail on one of those long, dark and stormy drives over the moors ! (he says after using K seal a few years ago )

[itchyfeet]

Dirko is a silicone sealant by elring
You get some with an elring kit you can also buy it on ebay
It comes in black which is supplied in the kit and a higher temp red
There is also a thin yellow for the stud nuts with the kit but never seen this for sale outside the kit

[ghost123uk]

Bearing that in mind, Alex what version was that grey stuff ? Is it some sort of "plastic metal" (no, I am not going to, just curious).

It's raining, I am going to see if I can contact that American guy via email to get "the low down" (USA slang ) on his method.

E D I T = his website looks interesting = http://www.vanagain.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT2 = Done =

Hi Ken,

Over here in the UK we have a very active forum for T25 owners.

Recently one of our members posted a link to your excellent YouTube vid on changing the WBX "head gasket" seal.

It has raised a lot of discussion about whether to change the lower liner seal. I know in your vid you say that, with levering the head off the liner using those lugs and a screwdriver, you find the lower "O" ring can be left as is, but folks are thinking that even the movement of the head (with the usual "stuck on" liner) to get the screwdriver into the gap has already dislodged or otherwise damaged the (old delicate) seal.

We would be very grateful over here if you could expand on this aspect a little.

So many folk here in the UK, when they get this problem, simply spend lots of money on a re-con engine <shock> because we seem to think you have to change that lower seal, which obviously makes the job much bigger.

If you prefer not to post on the forum (topic is here by the way = LINK ) you might have the time to reply via my email and I can put your words of wisdom on the thread for the benefit of us all.

Many thanks,

John B
p.s. - Would you ever consider doing it your way with the motor in situ ?

[itchyfeet]

What I don't understand is why you would even consider not changing this seal

You don't need to seperate liners from pistons so no danger of breaking rings
With the right tool gudgeons come out easily and the etra time taken Is partially compensated for by the ease of cleaning up the top sealing surfaces properly without the studs being in the way

[ghost123uk]

I wish I had a warm dry well lit garage with a big bench and an engine stand etc

[ghost123uk]

The last time I tried this job was in our front room =

[itchyfeet]

I have done this twice on my own, van was outside and engine was removed and fixed in a 6x8 garden shed

Those pics are of oil in the water by the looks that is the lower seal fail probably because somebody before you was too scared or lazy to remove the pistions and do the seal

[ghost123uk]

Those pics are of oil in the water by the looks that is the lower seal fail probably because somebody before you was too scared or lazy to remove the pistons and do the seal

Agreed. (it wasn't me)

[itchyfeet]

Well if it was done by a diyer then they were naieve but in my opinion if done by a garage that's just lazyness or incompetance

Don't make the same mistake insist the garage do it

[T25Convert]

Hi,

Can't help with garage (I've been squatting at the in-laws garage doing my rebuild but they want it back!) but have engine stand and tools (in Chester) you're welcome to borrow if you you can find a dry space somewhere that's not on the living room carpet?!

The grey stuff was Brickwerks tube of general Dirko sealant (I agree with the product description, sticks like "pooh" to a blanket). It wouldn't do anything for a pressurised leak, but it 'cured' the seepage issue nicely! It was also an absolute pain to scrape back off again when I came to rebuild.

The Americans seem much more gung-ho about repairs than we are. For example there are multiple threads / posts about doing big end bearing replacement without splitting the case (you take the liners off and unbolt the rod ends using a wobble bar and thin walled socket). If you look at the various videos that deal with all sorts of things - including Ben in Canada who's sometimes rather brutal with the WBX http://www.benplace.com/pistons_heads_video.htm - he does however replace the bottom seal, but without removing the pistons...

Cheers,

Alex