Just 3 head bolts?

[almo]

Eek! Help me pleeeesse! So I took my lovely 89 syncro caravelle, 2.1 litre petrol with LPG conversion to a VW specialist who has dropped it out, changed the manky old jacket/gasket (depending who you speak to) all well and good. BUT when bolting it all back together one of the head bolts snapped. It has been suggested to me that they try reassembling it and running it with just the three headbolts. The alternative is a new engine, but there's a lot of labour cash wasted if we try and it fails (ie. engine back out agin, then new one back in again).

So does running it on 3 head bolts sound sensible, doable, possible or just crazy?!


(sorry if you've seen my similar post as a reply on another thread, not sure if it would ever get seen there!)

[California Dreamin]

I've never seen it done but I can't honestly say it would every be acceptable.
Think of it this way...if it runs and doesn't leak, how confident are you going to be driving it over to France in the summer or down to Cornwall....it's a ticking time bomb and needs repairing properly.

Martin

[what2do]

Jesus!!! Removing broken studs is hardly the most taxing challenge for anyone with a mig - how come these people are competent enough to work on engines without the most basic of workshop skills? I'd be most unimpressed by their attitude. All is not lost, someone will recommend a workshop that will whip out for you without breaking the bank. And what's this nonsense about a new engine???????

Try relabelling your thread, 'Help needed to extract broken head bolt in (your location)'. That'll do it.

[almo]

Jesus!!! Removing broken studs is hardly the most taxing challenge for anyone with a mig - how come these people are competent enough to work on engines without the most basic of workshop skills? I'd be most unimpressed by their attitude. All is not lost, someone will recommend a workshop that will whip out for you without breaking the bank. And what's this nonsense about a new engine???????

Try relabelling your thread, 'Help needed to extract broken head bolt in (your location)'. That'll do it.

Thanks, I'll do just that. Only trouble is the engine is out now, so maybe someone affordable and with the skills is willing to travel...although I have asked a couple of VW garages and is currently with the leading specialist in the area. Let's see how that new thread goes anyway.

Cheers What2d!

[almo]

I've never seen it done but I can't honestly say it would every be acceptable.
Think of it this way...if it runs and doesn't leak, how confident are you going to be driving it over to France in the summer or down to Cornwall....it's a ticking time bomb and needs repairing properly.

Martin

Thanks Martin, I agree with those thoughts, but worth asking in case there's a school of thought that reckons I'd get a couple more years out of this engine on 3 bolts. Seems school's out for...er...February.

[gary1998]

don't try it.. if your garage broke they fix it the labor is down to them
unless it's a mate that was doing ya favor

[almo]

Can anyone help or recommend someone willing and able to remove a sheared bolt from the head of a T25 Syncro?

The story so far:
So I took my lovely 89 syncro caravelle, 2.1 litre petrol with LPG conversion to a VW specialist near Cardiff who has dropped it out, changed the manky old jacket/gasket (depending who you speak to) all well and good. BUT when bolting it all back together on the last torquing round one of the four head bolts snapped. It has been suggested to me that they could try reassembling it and running it with just the three headbolts. The alternative is a new engine as it's a major pain tand risky to fix as there's a lot of labour cash wasted if we try and it fails (ie. engine back out agin, then new one back in again, plus cost of new engine).

2schools of thought here. On the one hand "it's a labour-expensive and tricky fix to attempt so just stick a new recon in it", and on the other hand "it's not rocket science to mend and someone will do it so don't get a new engine".

If I can find someone who's able, affordable and willing to do it then that'd be great. Any suggestions?

[clift_d]

First things first - what about the current engine?

Did they use new head bolts - I'm not sure what the instructions are for your engine but on some JX diesels I don't believe that you can reuse the cylinder head bolts. It may not be the case, but if they've re-used the bolts when they shouldn't have (perhaps because they couldn't be bothered to get new ones) then I'm not sure that you should be paying to put this right.

If some of the bolt is sticking out then they might be able to get somebody to weld a nut on the end to remove it - see this thread.

If there isn't enough of the stud sticking out, and as they have the engine out already, then maybe they could get it to someone who could get the remains of the bolt out by spark erosion. Googling brought up the name of these fellas - http://www.cardiffwireerosion.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - if they can't help they might know someone who can.

Both of the above options will be cheaper than a new engine.

Good luck.

[Bigjcc55]

How much of the remaining stud is sticking out the block? I've used an impact stud extractor on the wbx head studs before.
For me it was more successful than welding a nut on but that depends on how much and condition of what you have left to try and work with.

[itchyfeet]

as said on both your other threads as well it can be removed by welding a nut on even if snapped at the base.

I think welding is generally accepted as the most reliable method as the heat loosens the threads

Your garage may not have the skills so you may need to take it to a somebody else to do

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=128005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=126836" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[T25Convert]

Hi,

Not sure quite which thread to reply to!

Here is a picture of the 'head bolts' you refer to (note that there are actually eight of them, not four):



As you'll see if the shear off at the end furthest away from the camera then it is a pain to get at them. However, for them to have properly done the head seals they will have needed to strip back to this point before, at which stage they should have inspected the studs.

However, as noted removing them is far from impossible (although it may be tricky).

In my mind it would be foolish at best not to inspect and renew, so I would expect the garage to pay any labour costs associated with this repair (but this might be tricky!)

You are clearly happy the engine is otherwise in good shape or you wouldn't have spent the money on getting the head leak sorted, so the idea of putting a refurb engine in seems a bit extreme, but I guess this will ultimately depend on how much the garage expects you to pay!!

Good luck with this...

Alex

[itchyfeet]

It should be noted the stud is much larger where it threads into the engine which helps when welding a nut on

Before...


after what2d had removed it...

[almo]

Hi,

Not sure quite which thread to reply to!

Here is a picture of the 'head bolts' you refer to (note that there are actually eight of them, not four):



As you'll see if the shear off at the end furthest away from the camera then it is a pain to get at them. However, for them to have properly done the head seals they will have needed to strip back to this point before, at which stage they should have inspected the studs.

However, as noted removing them is far from impossible (although it may be tricky).

In my mind it would be foolish at best not to inspect and renew, so I would expect the garage to pay any labour costs associated with this repair (but this might be tricky!)

You are clearly happy the engine is otherwise in good shape or you wouldn't have spent the money on getting the head leak sorted, so the idea of putting a refurb engine in seems a bit extreme, but I guess this will ultimately depend on how much the garage expects you to pay!!

Good luck with this...

Alex

Thanks Alex-great pics too. It's the top left stud on your picture, and it did indeed break at the point furthest from the camera, on the last turn of the torque wrench apparently. Engine is a refurb about 25000 miles and 3 years ago and runs great normally. Just flew the MOT so seems worth fighting for, and cant afford the extra to go new engine route anyway.

Watch this space...

[jamesc76]

like been said a nut and a welder be it stick or mig and should come out easy, if they cant do it there cak!

[Theclash]

My mate recently bought a Peugeot 205 gti engine block with head stud snapped and recessed into the block ( apparently where it meets water pump housing) he took a chance on it at £20 of eBay ,local engineers managed to drill the stud and retap the threads for a further £50 and believe me it was well and trully oxidised in.
What I'm trying to say is a good engineers with the proper tackle would be able to sort out the stud for you only negative is you will probably have to strip head/block so they can do it for you