OIL in COOLANT

[MrT3]

I was giving the bus a once over today and troubleshoot a few issues before dubfreeze , only to discovered black oil in both coolant tanks in the engine bay, coolant was green before!
Oil is OK, with no signs of coolant/water.

Bit of background:
The camper has been sat for a while after a summer trip around Europe and before we left, I fitted a Mocal oil cooler, tested with a few short trips locally, all was ok. Temp gauge sat at the red led.Smile

We packed up and set off to get the ferry, everything was running smooth, happy days giving myself a big pat on the back for fitting the oil cooler, then bang, we had a blowout on the way down to Dover. Fitted the rusty spare and put the Porsche twist in the middle with the wife and kids and off we set, with the wife convinced that the blowout was because I had fitted that bloody S/S exhaust system and it must be the extra heat from the her words 'big bloody thing'!!Ouch

Then, as I am being told why cant i leave things a bloody lone and trying to remain chilled, guess what!! another large bang,Cry but this time from the other side! sending the wife and kids hysterical....wife screaming 'what have you done now'. Pulling over again with the chance of catching the ferry becoming more and more unlikely. This time the heater ducting had decided, that after 20+ years, it was time to give up hanging on! Out came the cable tie engineer and off we set.

We decided to change the crossing and stay a couple of nights close to the port and give me a chance to sort the camper out, here in the UK... But, to top things off, i had noticed a small oil patch under the front end and under closer inspection it was the bloody oil cooler,the welded joint was leaking oil. Fearing my nuts would be put in a sling, if the Mrs found out that the oil cooler i fitted was goosed. I noticed a industrial estate on the way to the camp site and said i was off to find a replacement tire and i take a walk up.

Lucky would have it,Big smile that right next to the tire garage, was a motorsport supplier that had a copy version of the Mocal cooler and to be honest the welds where a dam sight better than the Mocal.

This time thou, when re-fitting i swapped the hoses around because i was worried that the vibration may of caused the weak joint on the Mocal. Cant see this to be honest, but now being mega paranoid i rigged it that way.

Over in Europe, everything seem great and we covered some distance France,Belgium,Holland and Germany but no journey was over, say 3hours. Temp gauge sat at the led and could here the first fan kick in and the second one kicked in the odd time. We got the ferry back to UK and started the return leg back up north. All seem OK, but I started to notice smoke under hard acceleration.

Pull in to the services, unpacking the mountain of gear to get to the engine bay (15min job alone) i could hear the v-belts screech under hard revs, with white/grey coloured smoke. Decided to continue on the final hour, no choice really as the kids were tired and wanting their beds.

Still smoked under hard acceleration the final leg, but we where lucky the motorways where quite, we could just cruise home and let the lorry's over take us.

This was are first trip and enough to put a lot of people off, but guess what we loved it, even with all the drama.. and even the Wife is becoming a little T3 nuts and planning are next outings.

So back to today,
Whats the cause of oil in the coolant?
Fitted Oil cooler or ?
Seal of some sort or?
Hopefully it not the head?

Any comments welcome

Cheers

Nick

[California Dreamin]

Oil in the coolant would normally indicate head gasket failure, however, does your engine have an original oil cooler fitted above the oil filer? (sort of square block with pipes entering) as these are known to internally rot allowing internal cross contamination.

Martin

[MrT3]

Hi Martin and thank you for replying.
Yes it does have the water/oil cooler, so i have ordered a replacement. From what i have read, various vw types have it fitted and like you say, it does seem to be a common cause of oil getting into the coolant from rotting internally!

Cheers

Nick

[ghost123uk]

Hoping for you that it is just that

After fitting the new one you will then have the "issue" of getting rid of the oil that will be coating every part of the cooling system, including all the thin pipes in the rad and the heater. I can tell you from personal experience that this takes a heck of a lot of draining / re-filling before it even starts to clear up. Boy do you get fast and proficient at draining, re-filling and bleeding. I used to drive to a destination and do a quick drain and re-fill and bleed before setting off back home ! I used to be able to do the whole operation in about 15 minutes.

Mind you, at this time of year you have a sight problem. If draining and re-filling lots of times, over a period of days / weeks, before the water starts to run clear, then you won't be putting antifreeze in will you, but there is every chance of temps below zero

Umm, what to do... I would not bother with "Rad Flush" type stuff = you need lots of it for a T25 system and in my experience it does not work that well for oil contamination.

What would I do, well, drain and re-fill it a few times over a day or two when the forecast is not threatening freezing temps at night (or day!), then put the antifreeze in and "put up" with yucky coolant until spring. A bit of oily muck in it won't actually do any harm (I don't think). Then do it properly in the spring.

[MrT3]

Hoping for you that it is just[...] A bit of oily muck in it won't actually do any harm (I don't think). Then do it properly in the spring.

Thank you for your advice, you have answered a few things i was concerned with and the main one being the oil remaining in the hoses/pipes,etc after flush! In your experience what is the best place to drain and flush from?

Cheers

Nick

[ghost123uk]

To be honest Nick, the place I was doing it from was not really "the best" as it does not fully drain the system. However, as mentioned, I was doing it on reaching my destination (work) and often on reaching home again, so the stat was open and so I was draining most of the coolant. The pipe I used was the thin metal stub that comes off the big metal pipe at the left of the engine. You know, the one that often rusts through and costs about £200 I used that pipe because it is easy to get to. I often tried to park on a slope, nose up, just to get that pipe lower and therefore get more out. Take the dalek cap off when draining, but take care as there should be pressure in there and very hot water

It is surprising how quickly one can become at bleeding after doing it a few times. One trick I used, esp as the engine was already hot, was to re-fill, fit the dalek, start motor, drive a bit or have a fag, then carefully slacken slightly the bleed bolt on the rad. The pressure that should have built up (hot engine) allows any air to be forceably ejected. When water starts coming out, re-tighten, but repeat the procedure a couple of times between drain and re-fills. This avoids all that "rev to 3,000 rpm, then loosen business (which takes 2 folk really).

Now, don't do what I did once. Whilst doing the above "hot, pressurised" bleeding, I undid the bleed screw on the rad too far, came out and a powerful fountain of very hot water shot out, hit the bodywork and sprayed all over me. Luckily I was unhurt. Just crack the bolt, don't unscrew it too far !

I drove around for a week with the grill off and about 5 gallon cans of water in the back to facilitate all this draining and bleeding.

[California Dreamin]

A bit of oil residue in the coolant isn't an issue, as John says, fill/run flush/fill run flush with water a couple of times before refilling with antifreeze mix.
In the motor trade we used to add a capful of Shell Retinax to quieten noisey water pump seals....
Obviously water in the oil is far more serious as lubrication is impaired.


Martin

[ermie571]

oooo useful info Ghost. To the OP take a look at my water in oil thread....

Em
xx

[MrT3]

Hi all, Now that was a mission and a half. I was about to give up and start exploring the possibility that the head my have issues.

Well the good news is i decided to give it one more flush. Once again, out came the hoses, coolant tanks to give them a clean again, f ing oil was beginning to truly p#ss me off. Again flushed water though every which way possible. Started the process of filling, then bingo, no more oil in water!!!!

I had replaced the oil/water heat exchanger, replaced seal and took the opportunity to install a new stat (80 degree jobie) massive improvement and the old one was in a right state.

Now what i have noticed is the temp gauge gets to the led a lot lot quicker than before. I use to have to run about for a good 30-45mins prior, but now its up to half way in about 10mins!! Is this good or bad?

Also i get funny smell from the heater when turned on, this use to happen before but not as strong or as quick, but boy does it get hot fast, use to take a age. I can smell the same smell when stood outside in front of the rad too.

My guess is the stat and coolant are now working as they should but maybe the heater is on is way out?? Any think else it could be? Heater core/ducting?

Cheers

Nick