The GASWAGON (act III)

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lloydy
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

Hiya xriss :D

I did look at the Renault ones, but I would say the factory ones are too small. I did find a aftermarket version that was twice as thick, but I'd rather stick with a OE one. At least with the one I'm getting it is designed for the engine, so should be a safe bet...
You bored of that James Cook yet?.. :lol:
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by ELVIS »

Yep, got the same sill. 253 801 251 :ok

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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Plasticman »

Well this came
Image
so now to chop it open
mm

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lloydy
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

I'm happy I found that one, that extra inch or so bigger over the golf 3 one makes it a much better size.
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Aidan »

why chop it open ?
looks like the spigots face in nice directions for fairly simple plumbing with it mounted vertically which is what Yager does, with a squirrel fan, Mudlarks was done like 10years ago and apart from the mounts breaking has been fine afaik

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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Plasticman »

No its not right as is and so going to make a very nice custom fit which will be very neat
mm

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lloydy
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

Yep, will be a much better config than the jaeger set up that mark has.. I know his works well, but it relies on the fan to do this. The engine bay is under higher air pressure Than the top of the d pillar, so flow is poor through the intercooler.
The set up mike is working on will give better air flow, which should mean the fan is on a lot less.
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Paul_Van_Denton »

what was wrong with the charge cooler setup? lots of lag?
1982 Panel Van, 2.2 scoob, Porsche 996 brakes, Air ride probably never coming soon!

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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Cableguy »

Lloyd, I've read lots about the pressure differences etc, is there any real evidence to support it?
I want to change mine which will be like jaegers I guess, but if there's a proven better option then maybe I'll change the plan.
:ok

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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Plasticman »

Can't comment on others nor the pressure differentials but the way I'm doing it will be the neatest looking ,discreet,and will incorporate fixtures for the relevant sensors plus will do away with some part hoses,clips etc and be purpose built for these vans
mm

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lloydy
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

Paul_Van_Denton wrote:what was wrong with the charge cooler setup? lots of lag?
Nope, no lag at all. It was a very good system, it was all just getting too busy in the engine bay.
Swapping to a intercooler also gets rid of a few fail points what with all the extra coolant pipes
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lloydy
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

southernsparky wrote:Lloyd, I've read lots about the pressure differences etc, is there any real evidence to support it?
I want to change mine which will be like jaegers I guess, but if there's a proven better option then maybe I'll change the plan.
:ok
There is a thread on the samba where someone has taken pressure measurements. The engine bay is under positive pressure for sure. I'll try to find the thread when I get home.
Jaegers set up does work, but it can be done better.
I'm looking forward to what MM comes up with
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Cableguy »

That would be great, cheers Lloyd.
I'm constantly amazed by the lengths that the yanks go to with everything. I wonder what they would make of some of the lash ups we get lumbered with over here :lol:
Just wish I had a way of working on my van inside. I've trawled the classifieds and drawn a blank. Did find a garage with a pit that would just squeeze the van in with 1 inch spare, was only £80 a month. Just missed out.

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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by lloydy »

test reading would be front of van, which would be zero. So the closer to zero the figure, the less differential from the front of van
As you can see, the bottom of the D pillar has higher pressure than the top.
Its quite a basic test, but you get the picture. The pillar needs to be sealed from engine bay and vented out to a low pressure area (back of van)


and the thread it comes from
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398314" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and the best bit from it
Here are some of the questions (not necessarily in order) that I asked myself before and during the tests with the first one being stated above: (remember, when I say that a pressure is higher in a particular area, this would result in a lower number on the chart because the chart represents the differential between the higher test area and the lower test area)

Question:
Even before I started the tests, I knew that a scoop on the pillar vent would help force air into the plenum, but how would this compare to the airflow in the "ideal" location at the front of the van?

Answer:
Not very well actually…at least not under my limited test procedures. While adding the scoop significantly increased the pressure in the plenum, the results are still a long way from the pressure at the front of the van. I'm sure that improvements to the scoop design/location could improve this even more, but I don't think that a single side vent/plenum can ever produce enough pressure to be considered equal to that of the front of the van. However, if the two plenums were to be combined into one plenum, maybe then we might have something. Tying the two plenums together and venting them out the back of the van seems to me to be a great way to get the kind of airflow needed to produce good results when using an air/air intercooler, albeit a bunch of work.

Question:
What is the air doing at the leading edge of the louvers as it enters the vent without a scoop?

Answer:
The air pressure in that area is comparatively pretty low. I was actually a little surprised at just how low the pressure was in this area.

Question:
What is the air doing down inside the plenum with the opening at the engine end open to the engine compartment?

Answer:
The air pressure down inside the plenum under these conditions is somewhat higher than out at the opening. While it doesn't show it on the chart, the readings at the bottom of the unsealed plenum were ever so slightly higher than at 3" down from the top. I didn’t record them because it didn’t seem significant enough.

Question:
How can the pressure at the bottom of the plenum near the taillight area be higher than at the top where the air is supposed to come in?

Answer:
Testing the air pressure in the engine compartment proved that there is higher pressure in that area (however slight it may be) than there is in the plenum. This means that in an unsealed plenum, the air coming into the engine compartment is at a higher pressure and appears to be forcing it's way into and up the plenum.

Question:
Does adding a scoop to an unsealed plenum create more pressure in the bottom of plenum in the area where an intercooler or oil cooler would be mounted?

Answer:
Yes it does! The addition of the scoop increases the pressure in the bottom of the unsealed plenum to just a hair over that of the engine compartment itself. However, the tiny increase in pressure is no where near what I would consider adequate to provide any significant amount of airflow through this area.

Question:
So what if we sealed up this plenum to separate it from the affects of the pressure in the engine compartment?

Answer:
With no scoop added, the louvers in place and the plenum sealed from the engine compartment but with the exception of the snorkel to the airbox still installed, pressure in the bottom of the plenum in front of the taillight showed a fairly large increase.

With a scoop added to the above scenario and all other things being the same, the pressure increased to it’s highest recorded level.
[/color]With no scoop and the louvers removed from the vent opening, the pressure dropped lower than it had been with the louvers installed.

With a scoop added and the louvers removed from the vent opening, the pressure was lower than with the scoop and the louvers but still significantly higher than just he louvers and no scoop.

To clarify, removing the louvered panel from the opening of the vent reduced the pressure in the plenum under all conditions tested. Adding the scoop to the vent opening increased the pressure under all conditions. Sealing the plenum from the engine compartment and adding a scoop made the most pressure in the plenum for the given tests.
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Re: The GASWAGON (act III)

Post by Plasticman »

Makes perfe t sense,and is partly what I'm doing,also will have a nice exit path for the air after passing the cooler matrix,not seen the yank one but we've been doing these fo about 30 years to cool pass as well as special auto conversions for racing so don't see any issues at all. Also the lpuvres redirect the aitstream whereas with out them the air enters at foo great a volume and collects so to speak as turbulence ,there are all sorts of papers on this but with experience you sort of know what works and what doesn't
mm

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