No starter battery no 12v even with fully charged leisure

[willpom]

Hi, I seem to have a problem with the electrics. I bought the van recently 86 1.9 petrol watercooled Autosleeper conversion.

I don't know how camper electrics work but should there be a wire from the leisure battery live other than the one to split charger relay? What I have done so far....

All 12v appear to work fine but the Propex 1600w heater wouldn't start - can hear it ticking over but then nothing. On the Autosleeper electric panel (ASEP) I get 2 lights; one green - fully charged, the other red - low (recharge). The middle orange - normal condition not being lit.

I had a bad leisure battery that had run dry which I tried to resuscitate but to no avail so got one of these http://www.advancedbatterysupplies.co.u ... ttery.html which I have installed today. Measured 12.6v with the multimeter. Previous to that I'd checked the split charge relay measuring 13+v across the leisure battery when the engine was running. All wired according to diagram in wiki just no fuse between leisure and relay which I will correct.

Still the Propex wouldn't start, I know this could be an issue with the fan on the air inlet duct which I will get to shortly. Still the ASEP has same lights. I measure voltage across starter battery and it is 12.3 so have taken out to give it a charge. Now no 12v camper lights are working. Was going to try the 12v socket on the ASEP with the laptop charger but it is a weird tiny one not the usual cigarette lighter style so tested with the multimeter = 0v.

I therefore assume no juice from the leisure battery is making it into the camper circuit, it should work without the starter battery right?

Anyway I was routing around and I found a red wire folded back over in the wiring loom from starter to leisure battery space and did a continuity test which was positive. Should this be a live link between leisure and somewhere? If I'm reading the wiring diagram here https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Au ... ng_diagram correctly it should be the 'blue' live wire to the back of the ASEP (no charger connected). Currently there is a wire from the starter battery live to back of ASEP. I have disconnected that and linked with the extra wire I found to the leisure and the 12v works.

Has someone just re-wired as the leisure battery was screwed? If I link it back to leisure avoiding starter is this right? From what I can make out on the diagram the starter to live ASEP is only when just a starter battery is used. Don't want to do something I find out it is wrong later so if any of you electrical geniuses out there could give me a nod that would be wonderful.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Can't be much help with that wiring problem - but as always, any pics of the wiring that you do have are always helpful.

As for the Propex - if you turn it on and the fan whirrs, and then there is a clicking sound (maybe half a dozen times) - that is the ignitor trying to ignite the gas burner but, apparently failing, it will then shutdown if it doesn't light after a number of tries.
Have you got the gas to the Propex turned on? There may be more than one gas valve to open (on mine I have a gas valve on the bottle pressure regulator, then a separate one to allow gas to the Propex; both must be on) The Propex has a number of safeguards - so voltage must be sufficient, gas pressure must be high enough etc etc so it can be a bit fickle;

Good luck!!

[AdrianC]

but should there be a wire from the leisure battery live other than the one to split charger relay?

To where? To the starter battery?

Anyway I was routing around and I found a red wire folded back over in the wiring loom from starter to leisure battery space and did a continuity test which was positive. Should this be a live link between leisure and somewhere?

If the two are permanently connected, then you've effectively just got two batteries doing the same job. Anything drawing power will effectively draw from both - so if you sit in the van with the lights and music on for an evening, you won't be able to start in the morning.

The split charge connects them together ONLY when it sees that the alternator's charging, so the leisure gets charged, but disconnects otherwise, so you can use the leisure without draining the starter.

[MidLifeCrisis]

From what I can make out on the diagram the starter to live ASEP is only when just a starter battery is used. Don't want to do something I find out it is wrong later so if any of you electrical geniuses out there could give me a nod that would be wonderful.

Yep - if you have a Leisure (Auxiliary) battery then the Vehicle battery should not be connected to your ASEP.
It should look a little something like this ......

[willpom]

Sorted the electrics, I think. Disconnected the starter live to ASEP and reconnected to leisure. 12v now works without the starter in.

If the two are permanently connected, then you've effectively just got two batteries doing the same job. Anything drawing power will effectively draw from both - so if you sit in the van with the lights and music on for an evening, you won't be able to start in the morning.

That's is what I figured. I'm presuming it doesn't matter that the neutral from the ASEP terminates where the starter neutral terminates on the chassis as it would be the same wherever it was terminated?

As for the Propex - if you turn it on and the fan whirrs, and then there is a clicking sound (maybe half a dozen times) - that is the ignitor trying to ignite the gas burner but, apparently failing, it will then shutdown if it doesn't light after a number of tries.
Have you got the gas to the Propex turned on? There may be more than one gas valve to open (on mine I have a gas valve on the bottle pressure regulator, then a separate one to allow gas to the Propex; both must be on) The Propex has a number of safeguards - so voltage must be sufficient, gas pressure must be high enough etc etc so it can be a bit fickle;

It does almost that, no whirring fan though, just clicks and then stops, occasionally with a pop. Is it the barrel looking fan that should be whirring, behind the electrics if you take the front ducts off? Or is there another fan in some compartment behind this?
I have tested this afternoon with gas bottle and isolator taps on, leisure battery at 12.6v, tried on 3 fullish gas bottles, put one in a bucket of warm water as have read cold butane may be temperamental but no joy so just the fan to get whirring...

Going to search the forum/wiki for Propex.

[MidLifeCrisis]

Pretty sure that there is only one fan in there - so if you're not hearing a fan turning then that's probably the problem.
Does your control module (thermostat) thing that attached to the propex allow you to switch to fan only - if so try that and see if you get any fan sounds?
When I got mine (second hand) - the fan was seized up, had to take the unit apart and coax it back into life - so that could be your problem ...

[willpom]

Does your control module (thermostat) thing that attached to the propex allow you to switch to fan only - if so try that and see if you get any fan sounds?

No it's an after market thermostat, just 0 1 2 3 4 5 and an on off switch. I've read that the fan not working is to do with grease in the bearing becoming stiff, tried using a hairdryer to warm it up, piece of bamboo to thread onto the centre nut and then give it a spin, no luck so far will continue tomorrow. Also going to remove the combustion air inlet vent on side of the van and give a clean as it looks full of dirt.
Otherwise I'll reluctantly take the bloomin' thing out, strip it apart and coax it back to life. By the time I've finished it'll be summer and I'll need to invest in a new thermostat from Propex so I can just use the fan - to keep cool!

[AdrianC]

12v now works without the starter in.

Starter battery, rather than starter motor...?

Just double-check that you don't have 12v between the +ve terminal and the bodywork.

I'm presuming it doesn't matter that the neutral from the ASEP terminates where the starter neutral terminates on the chassis as it would be the same wherever it was terminated?

Yep. Effectively everything metal, bodywork/engine/whatever, is connected to BOTH -ve terminals.

[a1winchester]

Just a thought - are you using camping gaz, butane or propane? At low temperatures it can make a big difference.

[Oldiebut goodie]

[quote="willpom"] tried on 3 fullish gas bottles, put one in a bucket of warm water as have read cold butane may be temperamental but no joy so just the fan to get whirring...
/quote]

[ghost123uk]

I've read that the fan not working is to do with grease in the bearing becoming stiff, tried using a hairdryer to warm it up, piece of bamboo to thread onto the centre nut and then give it a spin, no luck so far will continue tomorrow. Otherwise I'll reluctantly take the bloomin' thing out, strip it apart and coax it back to life.

I had this on mine. My bearing was well seized when I bought the unit (that''s why it was cheap ) I stripped it and tried to free off the bearing but it was foobar'd. It is a special type of bearing that is held in place by a little plate that is spot welded in place, so no chance of removing and replacing it. In the end I sent it to Propex (VERY helpful folk by the way) and they fitted a new, later style motor (quieter and less current consumption apparently). They also fitted a new flame sensor. Cost about £100 all in. One of the "issues" if you try to DIY it is that, as well as the above bearing issue, all the case panels (inside as well) are hermetically sealed with some sort of silicone (hi temp compatible no doubt) and you need to factor in the replacing of that stuff. Oh, and it makes disassembling it "interesting"

[willpom]

Tried hairdryer, vacuum & a stick to try and get the fan moving, no joy. Disconnected and 'ripped' the casing apart to get past the seal, wasn't too hard though. Fan bearing was as stiff as hell could hardly move it. Got my drill and wedged it in there tightening the chuck over the centre axle and ran it for 10 minutes. Reconnected to the power and the fan spins as sweet as a Russian Ballerina. Will seal the case up with hi-temp silicone - £3.50 ebay. Need to get some new exhaust tubing as it disintegrated in my hands, then put it all back in and give it a proper tryout, will let you all know the outcome.

Already spoken to Propex about the thermostat as mine is a simple on/off switch and dial, no option for just fan. My heater only has 3 wires exiting not 4, they said it was very old but if I took a photo of the inside electrics they'd show me which wires to cut, join and add if it was possible at all, VERY helpful!

[willpom]

Well a while later I got round to sealing the unit back up with high temp silicone and fitting new exhaust etc. All re-fitted this weekend. Fired up perfectly on second try! Fitted a CO detector in camper just to make sure the silicone has worked!