What's wrong with my starter?

[ajsimmo]

You can buy the solenoid, (for £18.80 plus the usual) and all sorts of auto electrical goodies from Wood Auto.
http://www.woodauto.com/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mark Foss]

My guess without testing out the circuit would be a sticking ignition switch. The only problem I see with stripping the solenoid down is the fact you some how have to crimp the end back on and make it secure. But as ajsimmo says a new one is pocket money. Why not change the oilite bush as well whilst its all stripped down?

http://www.woodauto.com/Component.aspx?Ref=SND1499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CJH]

Thanks guys, that's good to know. I've reassembled the solenoid and starter, ready for refitting it tomorrow, and on the bench the solenoid switch seems to work fine - it only closes the motor circuit when the pinion is fully extended, and the circuit opens again with the slightest retraction of the pinion. I lightly greased the plunger, and it all seems to be working ok. Obviously I haven't powered it up on the bench, but mechanically it seems ok.

So my money's on the ignition switch too. It's odd though, I was able to turn the key right round to the off position, so that the engine stopped, but the starter was still spinning. I don't know what the inner workings of the ignition switch are like, but that seems like an odd failure mode.

[CJH]

Why not change the oilite bush as well whilst its all stripped down?

I considered that. That looks like the hardest part of the whole job though. Getting the starter out was a bit of a doddle - I didn't have to remove the wheel or jack it up, I just crawled underneath for the wires and the lower bolt, and removed the carb pancake to get to the top bolt. Accessing the bush looked like a real pig though. It was really difficult to get a good view of it, and I'd fully expect to drop it into the bell housing! I've no idea whether you can tell by eye if the bush is OK, but it looked to be in one piece and not worn out of shape. If the starter had been more of a job I'd probably have made more of an effort with the bush, but since it's so easy I decided to wait until the bush started to cause a problem.

[CJH]

I tested the starter circuit with my meter and it seemed to turn off quite reliably. It's surprising how a little bit of visual feedback (watching the meter reading switch between 12V and 0V in sync with the switch position) allows you to get a feel for the switch condition. The key feels nice and tight, and the switch operation seemed totally reliable over the dozen or so times I tested it.

So I put the starter back in, and so far, touch wood, it seems to be working properly again. Until the next time it misbehaves I'm going to put this one down to the tried-and-tested "take-everything-apart-and-put-it-back-together-again" school of mechanicing. Maybe it really was a sticking solenoid, and maybe cleaning and greasing it has done the trick.

The best bit - it started from cold without having to touch the gas pedal. First time ever - that tune-up at Campershack was worth the effort. And when I stopped it and then pressed the pedal to engage the fast idle, even that worked! I'm on a roll!

[CJH]

Boy was I wrong about being on a roll. It must have worked fine about 30 times on my drive, but as soon as I got changed into clean clothes ready to actually, you know, go somewhere in the van, first turn of the key and it did it again.

Ok, I thought, must be the ignition switch after all, so I removed it and disassembled it, and it did indeed look a little bit dirty, with some black dust that I convinced myself might have been shorting the starter circuit. I cleaned it all up and reassembled everything, and it worked fine again. On my drive. In dirty clothes. It would, wouldn't it.

Took it for a drive round the block, and it started fine and the starter turned off properly, but when I got a mile away from home I could hear it spinning again. So it had started up all by itself, independently of the key. I pulled over, stopped the engine, and could only stop the motor spinning by disconnecting the battery. And each time I reconnected the battery it started spinning again. The pinion gear wasn't engaging though, so I think it's probably a faulty switch inside the solenoid, rather than the ignition energising the solenoid coil. Anyway, with the solenoid stuck like this I had no way to start the van, and I was a mile away from home. In the end, by momentarily connecting and disconnecting the battery a few times I was able to make it stop, and then I could start the van as normal and get it home.

So I've had enough of this - I'm going to order a new starter, and a new ignition switch. I'll get a new oilite bush too. It's probably the solenoid but at this point I'd rather replace the lot and be done.

[MidLifeCrisis]

If the pinion gear is retracting then I don't see how it can be the ignition switch at fault.
The only culprit can be the starter solenoid !
(Just a thought - is there any way that the thick cable that goes to the solenoid from the battery could be contacting that short braided cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter motor?
Either way - a new starter would definitely be a good bet to put these troubles behind you!

[CJH]

Just a thought - is there any way that the thick cable that goes to the solenoid from the battery could be contacting that short braided cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter motor?

That's a good suggestion, but unfortunately no, the cables are all secure and they're not touching.

I agree, the solenoid does seem to be the culprit. The ignition switch is cheap though, and quite easy to swap. And a whole new starter will put my mind at ease - I'd hate to get a new solenoid and then find I need a new starter as well!

[Oldiebut goodie]

Did you try disconnecting the solenoid actuating lead this time to see if power was being applied?

[CJH]

I didn't. Thought about it, but I was parked on the kerb, and it was getting dark. And I had my good coat on!

[CJH]

I fitted the new starter this afternoon, and touch wood it seems to have cured the problem. But then I've only tested it in my dirty clothes so far - it may well be waiting for me to get cleaned up and ready to go out in it.

Replacing the bush was a condition of the warranty for the new starter, and it made sense anyway so as not to risk damaging the new starter. As expected though, replacing the bush was easily the worst bit of the job - difficult to get a sight line onto it from underneath because of the drive shaft, difficult to see anyway because of the contrast against the sky seen through the engine bay (I ended up putting the engine cover on and just using artificial light under the van), difficult to get both hands in, difficult to get the old bush out, and difficult to swing a hammer to drift the new bush in. But it's done now. And it started from cold on the first turn of the key again - yay!

I'll put the replacement ignition switch in my box of spares for now.