Calling and West Midlands electrical experts!

[Richardwhite]

Hi folks

I'll preface this by saying that of all my inexperiences with T25 ownership, electrical stuff is by far my least knowledgable area!

Does anyone know of anywhere or anyone in the West Mids who can give me a bit of help with some electrical problems I'm having with our van? I've been reading round in circles for ages and I'm completely lost as to what could be the problem, and what the fix could be - I'm wary of doing more harm than good by blindly poking around and needlessly swapping out parts which may or may not be broken!

When we picked up the van a couple of weeks ago the battery was dead flat and was replaced and we presumed that the issue was with damage to the wires connected to the glow plug system. I replaced the glow plug relay, socket and a number of damaged wires last week that solved one problem as the glow plugs now work (I think), but seems to have unearthed another (as tends to happen!). Something is drawing power from the starter battery - not loads, but enough for it to loose 1V overnight and mean that it wouldn't start this morning. In the middle of a field. In the mud.

I've read the various threads on alternators, brush packs and regulators, as well as ones on disconnecting various things to see where the drain is but for this one I think I'm out of my depth and really would rather seek some help . It'll certainly make my other half happier that I'm not going to electrocute myself or set the van on fire!

If anyone knows of a local garage (or forum member!) who might be able to take a look for me I'd be hugely grateful - I'm keen to learn how it all works but I want to get this checked out by someone who knows what they're doing as I need to make sure we've got a safe van to drive!

Any names, numbers, contacts or help would be gratefully received!

Thanks everyone

Richard

[ghost123uk]

I am a bit too far away to come and help you, but I might be able to help via here.

First things first, you cannot get a shock from any part of your van (especially as it is a Diesel, so has no HT leads, which can give you a nasty shock).

You can easily try this :-

Take off the -ve lead off the battery.
Take one of the "tubular" shaped little bulbs out of courtesy light by your head (30 second job).
Shut all the doors and make sure nothing is switched on (no danger, it's just to make this test work)
Now place one of the metal caps at one end of the bulb onto the -ve battery post and touch the connector on the end of the -ve cable to the other end of the bulb. You can touch the parts with your fingers, you cannot get a shock I promise you.

Now, does the bulb glow at all, even very dimly ? (it shouldn't).

If it does, get an assistant to pull out the fuses, 1 at a time, whilst you watch the bulb. If, on pulling out a fuse, the bulb stops glowing, note what that fuse if for. You are then 90% the way to knowing what is wrong. If it glows when all the fuses are out, let me (us) know and we can go to the next test.

[ghost123uk]

Something is drawing power from the starter battery - not loads, but enough for it to loose 1V overnight

Just a thought, when measuring this 1 volt drop, did you do the first measurement a good while after parking up, or shortly after parking up ?

Also, can you post your batteries voltage after the van has been left unused for around an hour, with no attempt having been made to start it. (as it is a new battery, it should be 12.9 plus or minus no more than .2 of a volt) If you measure it with the engine running, it should be between 13.8 and 14.2, but if doing this, best to do it on returning from a drive out (short or long, engine still running), not just after starting it.

[Richardwhite]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try that out either tomorrow or next weekend. When you say courtesy light do you mean the light above the drivers door?

In terms of the drop, the initial 12.5V (or thereabouts) was measured about an hour after parking up, this morning it was down to below 11.5V and wasn't enough to kick the starter over. We jumped it from another car and drove it around for an hour before parking it up again and the voltage had gone up to 12.10V. With everything switched off the multimeter was recording a 0.01v drop pretty regularly, maybe every minute or so.

We don't drive it during the week and I unplug the battery when it's not is use but next time we're out and about in it I'll measure the voltage at various points and see what happens.

I have a feeling there's still something not quite right with the glow plugs - the wire that runs to the left side of the glow plug fuse gets very hot after driving, is this normal?

The additional drain overnight could well be from the interior lights (which we had on for an hour before I realised that they may well be connected to the starter as opposed to the leisure battery) but when I checked this afternoon the regular drop was still happening even when everything else was off. I'm sure I've seen something somewhere about rewiring the internal lights to the leisure battery but I can't find it now.

And someones removed the BBB charger for the leisure battery but that's another problem...

thanks again

[ghost123uk]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try that out either tomorrow or next weekend. When you say courtesy light do you mean the light above the drivers door?

Yes, that's the one.

In terms of the drop, the initial 12.5V (or thereabouts) was measured about an hour after parking up,

OK, that is the correct way

drove it around for an hour before parking it up again and the voltage had gone up to 12.10V.

That's not right, after an hour of driving it and then measuring just after parking up, it should be around 12.9 give or take .2 of a volt.

With everything switched off the multimeter was recording a 0.01v drop pretty regularly, maybe every minute or so.

Aye, so my "bulb test" might well show summat up.

We don't drive it during the week and I unplug the battery when it's not is use but next time we're out and about in it I'll measure the voltage at various points and see what happens.

If it does drop voltage over a period of days when not connected, it is a faulty battery.

I have a feeling there's still something not quite right with the glow plugs - the wire that runs to the left side of the glow plug fuse gets very hot after driving, is this normal?

No it's definitely not. It sounds like they are on all the time and they pull so much current they would virtually prevent the battery from charging whilst driving, which would explain your 12.1 volts after an hours driving Doesn't explain why it drains overnight though.

The additional drain overnight could well be from the interior lights (which we had on for an hour before I realised that they may well be connected to the starter as opposed to the leisure battery) but when I checked this afternoon the regular drop was still happening even when everything else was off. I'm sure I've seen something somewhere about rewiring the internal lights to the leisure battery but I can't find it now.

With a new battery, interior lights on for an hour shouldn't barely touch the voltage. I would think about re-wiring to the leisure battery after you have got this other issue sorted, one thing at a time

thanks again

No problem, it's too cold and wet to play out, and she is watching the bliddy tennis

ps = don't let your new battery go bellow 11.5 volts, it will damage it ! Do as you have been and disconnect it when not in use.

[ghost123uk]

I have a feeling there's still something not quite right with the glow plugs - the wire that runs to the left side of the glow plug fuse gets very hot after driving, is this normal?

No it's definitely not. It sounds like they are on all the time and they pull so much current they would virtually prevent the battery from charging whilst driving, which would explain your 12.1 volts after an hours driving

You could easily try this = fire it up, and put your meter onto one (or each) of the glow plugs, there should be no voltage there whilst it is running.

[Richardwhite]

Hmmm, interesting on the glow plug front... The other half was probably right, there are a couple of thing afoot

Any idea what could be causing the plugs to be on constantly? The LED on the dash isn't on all the time, although it does flicker from time to time, and the relay (and socket) is brand new so I was hoping I'd solved that one!

Also, do you know where I can find the link for rewiring the interior lights to the leisure battery?

Thanks!

[ghost123uk]

Any idea what could be causing the plugs to be on constantly? The LED on the dash isn't on all the time, although it does flicker from time to time, and the relay (and socket) is brand new so I was hoping I'd solved that one!

Not really, not without being there with my meter. First is to check they are actually on when running, with the meter as above ^^^. Then, if they are, check to see if the relay has got it's trigger voltage when it shouldn't (ie when running). If it hasn't then the relay is suspect, if it has you need to trace back to find out why. By the way, I am no Diesel expert, just using my general knowledge of electrics and limited experience of Diesels here.

Also, do you know where I can find the link for rewiring the interior lights to the leisure battery?

Not sure about a link, but that job is simple tracing back to where the lights are currently fed from, as in the fuse board, then cutting the wire and extending it back to the leisure battery fuses. Do you have any sort of "Zig" control panel fitted ?

[Richardwhite]

Sorry for the delay...

No zig panel fitted, the leisure battery charges when the engines running, but the Westy bbb is missing so no charge from hook up.

Is it worth investing in a Zig unit (zig cf8 seems to be the common one...)? My other thought was to buy a mains plug battery charger which I cud use when the vans on hook up to top up both the leisure battery (and the starter battery if needed) and also at home. But not sure what the best tack is!

Cheers

[ghost123uk]

No zig panel fitted, the leisure battery charges when the engines running,

Good

Is it worth investing in a Zig unit

Not in my opinion. Lots of unnecessary complication to be had there !

My other thought was to buy a mains plug battery charger which I could use when the vans on hook up to top up both the leisure battery (and the starter battery if needed) and also at home

Perfectly good and simple solution
But get one with a decent output, not one of those cheap 4 amp ones. A 10 Amp "intelligent" one is good.

[Richardwhite]

Quick update on this - finally got the van back from the garage today (Neil's Autos in Wolves) and it's all sorted

There were a catalogue of problems so there's no way I'd have solved it on my own!

These included... The turbo coolant motor was leaking water into the wiring loom, the coolant expansion tank was cracked, there was 6inches of wire to the alternator that had got so hot all the plastic sheath had meted off, the temperature sensor on the engine had packed up, and there were a number of distinctly dodgy 'fixes' involving connector blocks, incorrectly sized crimp connectors and electrical tape... Still all sorted now and running like a charm

The good news is that someone had already done the interior light/radio to leisure battery fix so that's one thing I don't have to sort!

Big thanks to Ghost123uk for your advice early on!