How to choose tyres?

[Tobyt25]

Don't think id be brave enough to drive my van in the snow or ice. I have to drive the work vans on rural routes in the snow all the time, had some very scary slips n slides.

Had a van yesterday at work which had been fitted with a make i had never heard off. It was constantly wheel spinning in the wet, understeering and failing to stop. It was like driving on black ice, but it was only rain. Its amazing how much difference they make.

[Cruz]

Originally when I had my wider 16" alloys fitted I had Khumo summer tyres on and they coped well during what was a snowy winter. Then I went to Hankooks 99XL as the Khumos were only 95 rated and they too have coped excellently in the snow for the last 3/4 years. Even at damp festivals I have got off the fields easier than other front wheel drive vans.

Don't avoid snow conditions. Learn to drive in them

[AdrianC]

I know several people who fit (winter tyres) to their cars

<waves>
The difference is night and day.

[Titus A Duxass]

I know several people who fit (winter tyres) to their cars

<waves>
The difference is night and day.

Agreed - night and day - i've got Hankook winterreifen - mandatory over here.

[CycloneMike]

I examine tyres as part of my work, normally on crash damaged cars. I have had various training including some from Michelin, I am not the last word in tyres... but this is how I see it.
I would like to buy the most expensive tyres but I don't because I can't afford them. I think whatever you buy to some extent tyres are a compromise and you need to use them or expect them to wear/last accordingly.
The everlasting tyre that gives maximum grip in all circumstances and costs peanuts does not exist. Buy the best your budget will allow but don't expect the cheepies to be the latest F1 technology. The range of manufacturers and patterns is vast. On a regular basis I will see a new brand I have never seen before. Not all Far eastern tyres are bad, some of the companies are closely linked to premium european manufacturers. Conversely some are truly terrible and deteriorate almost as you look at them.
The EU tyre ratings came into existence because the big EU tyre manufacturers wanted some way of showing that their premium tyres were better than the cheeper alternatives.
By the time the legislation came into effect the Far Eastern tyre manufacturers were producing tyres with A ratings in all categories, so it back fired to some extent. Or looking on a positive, it improved and is getting rid of some of the poorer tyres available.
It is important to remember the EU labelling tests are only for new tyres. Sounds obvious but the tyres are designed to pass these tests when new, not necessarily throughout their life cycle. So just because a tyre is quiet when new it doesn't mean it will remain so. All the cuts and markings within the tyre tread pattern are there for a reason not just aesthetics. Some of them will be worn away long before the tyre is near to its wear limit, so what were they there for?
I am all for winter tyres in the right winter conditions, but again these tyres are a compromise as they are designed to work in a specific environment. I have some experience of drivers who use high performance vehicles on winter tyres and expect them to perform the same as summer tyres do in July, well they don't. Winter tyre sales are being pushed by the tyre industry in the UK. There are lots of tests showing how winter tyres will out brake summer tyres in low temps with water or slush etc. I am yet to see the results of comparison tests done on mild days with dry roads which we also do have for much or the winter. I suspect this is because the winter tyres will loose out. Again we are talking compromise, the problem with our winters is they are so variable.
For those who don't use winter tyres I would recommend keeping your tread depth above 3mm in winter, anything below this and the risk of aquaplane increases significantly. Keep your best tyres on the back regardless of which wheels are driven.
Keep you pressures correct, over inflation can be just as dangerous as under inflation. Although in my experience complete failures are usually as a result of running under inflated.
What ever you buy, will be better than the best available when your van was new. If you are buying for your van (apart from a few) your tyres don't have ABS and traction control to help them. Tyres are designed to work best when rolling, once your wheels are locked and sliding in any direction, there is F all difference in performance between a premium tyre and a ditch finder.

[AdrianC]

I have some experience of drivers who use high performance vehicles on winter tyres and expect them to perform the same as summer tyres do in July, well they don't.

Clearly, that'd just be daft of the driver. The question is more one of whether they outperform normal summer tyres in those same conditions.

Winter tyre sales are being pushed by the tyre industry in the UK.

Not very hard, given how difficult it can be to source 'em!

I am yet to see the results of comparison tests done on mild days with dry roads which we also do have for much or the winter.

My personal experience is that the better tyre "swaps over" at about 5degC, even on dry tarmac. We're going to get days warmer than that (I hope!) between <say> late Nov and mid March, just as we'll probably get worse outside that. But everything in life's a compromise.

What ever you buy, will be better than the best available when your van was new.

A bit debatable. Our van was fitted new with Michelin tyres - I know this, because the spare was a 1988-datemarked Michelin on an unused rim... Would you rather have late '80s-tech Michs (obviously, not 25yr old tyres...) than some of the teflon-concrete blend Chinese rubbish that's about now? Krap-Fit and their ilk have always sold some shonky rubbish, but cheap global transport and the rise of eBay and the like have meant that the never-mind-the-quality-look-at-the-price junk end of the market has exploded in the last few years.

Tyres are designed to work best when rolling, once your wheels are locked and sliding in any direction, there is F all difference in performance between a premium tyre and a ditch finder.

Indeed - but the big difference between the two is the point at which the tyres lock and slide.

[bigherb]

Tyres are designed to work best when rolling, once your wheels are locked and sliding in any direction, there is F all difference in performance between a premium tyre and a ditch finder.

Indeed - but the big difference between the two is the point at which the tyres lock and slide.

Very true and there is a big difference in the stopping distance once the wheel is locked, the tyre is still slowing the vehicle just not a efficiently as a still rotating tyre. The important thing is how long it still takes to stop once the wheel has locked or before the ABS has to cut in.

[CycloneMike]

I have some experience of drivers who use high performance vehicles on winter tyres and expect them to perform the same as summer tyres do in July, well they don't.

Clearly, that'd just be daft of the driver. The question is more one of whether they outperform normal summer tyres in those same conditions.

I was pointing out they are not the panacea some claim or expect them to be.

Winter tyre sales are being pushed by the tyre industry in the UK.

Not very hard, given how difficult it can be to source 'em!

Really? I'm not in the market for them, but I read recently that were stockpiles of tyres unsold because we had a milder winter last year. There was a big campaign TV Motoring press etc, but the sales didn't follow.

I am yet to see the results of comparison tests done on mild days with dry roads which we also do have for much or the winter.

My personal experience is that the better tyre "swaps over" at about 5degC, even on dry tarmac. We're going to get days warmer than that (I hope!) between <say> late Nov and mid March, just as we'll probably get worse outside that. But everything in life's a compromise.

I'm sure I mentioned compromise..

What ever you buy, will be better than the best available when your van was new.

A bit debatable. Our van was fitted new with Michelin tyres - I know this, because the spare was a 1988-datemarked Michelin on an unused rim... Would you rather have late '80s-tech Michs (obviously, not 25yr old tyres...) than some of the teflon-concrete blend Chinese rubbish that's about now? Krap-Fit and their ilk have always sold some shonky rubbish, but cheap global transport and the rise of eBay and the like have meant that the never-mind-the-quality-look-at-the-price junk end of the market has exploded in the last few years.

OK its debatable. Its not just about pattern. Materials technology and quality control has advanced a long way. All tyres have moved on and we are talking about 25ish years of improvement. Michelin are arguably the leader in new technology, but the Chinese are quicker at keeping up than you give them credit. But as I said not all quality is the same. I have seen some rotten premium tyres and even Michelin have had widespread recalls due to manufacturing problems.

Tyres are designed to work best when rolling, once your wheels are locked and sliding in any direction, there is F all difference in performance between a premium tyre and a ditch finder.

Indeed - but the big difference between the two is the point at which the tyres lock and slide.

And probably as much to do with the driver, anticipation and planning. It's only my opinion but it is formed from some years of experience and testing. As someone who tests coefficient of friction between road surfaces and tyres I would suggest the road surface material is just as influencing (if not more) as the tyre composition in the amount of peak friction available. But we have little choice what the road is made of

[kevtherev]

Very interesting Mike
I was on the R&D team at Goodyear
By far the biggest leap in technology was the radial tyre.
the next leap was compounds specifically non organic and synthetic resins and butyl based substitutes.
Next came advances in construction due to these new synthetics.
Stronger and lighter.
Lastly when I bowed out run flat tyres were being designed and trialed

Tread compounds can be made like F1 wets tomorrow... the public would hate it and you rightly point to compounds that compramise grip and wear..we had tyres on test in real time for years on a rolling road.
Compound technology is a closely guarded secret among the elite tyre manufacturers
I visited the powder room at goodyear and it was like fort knox.

[Zebedee]

When i first bought my 1.9 caravelle it was fitted with Firestone CV3000 tyres all round and would stick to the road in wet or dry like "pooh" to a blanket. Theres a corner i take on a daily basis and it would go round it in the wet at 55mph.

When the rears eventually wore out i bought a pair of budget tyres as i couldn't justify spending £150 at the time.
That same corner i could travel round at 55 is now a 40mph (in the dry corner) as the back end of the van just wants to slide all the time.

[AdrianC]

Very interesting Mike
I was on the R&D team at Goodyear
By far the biggest leap in technology was the radial tyre.

Just a tad before your time, maybe , Kev? 1946, Michelin launched the X radial...