Power loss

[vanisveryrusty]

Thanks Ian, very kind of you to offer.
I was on a bit of a mission earlier, before your offer, and have ordered a coil and an ignition amp from Baxter, I will fit them just to be sure.
Filling it up with oil actually did the trick.
And
before you all say i should check the oil here is what happened:

Van went in to a garage 20 miles away last week to have the fuel pipes replaced on top of the tank.
Checked the oil before the trip, and the water, all OK.
Job done drove van back from garage and daughter took it on 100 mile trip at weekend where it broke down with the misfiring.

I then replaced all the electrics, and finally checked the oil as a long shot thinking that if there somehow was no oil, the hydarulic tappets wouldnt open properly and it would misfire, sieze up or worse.
Thats when I founf oil below the minimum.
Topped it up and all is now back to usual.
No oil leaks, and it doesnt burn that much oil.
So where did it go ????

Garage has noisy radio on all the time and the main guy has an assistant who doesnt speak English as his first language.
I can imagine the scenario
"Oi, Hanz, take some ofthe fuel out of that van for me " ( in prep for tank drop)
Hanz hears "take some of the oil out of that van for me"
Hanz answers "OK, how much do I take "
Boss...... "just leave a bit in there "
Hanz "OK".
Hanz drains the oil down to below minimum, and the rest is history.

My flaming engine almost was too
Accidents happen, just pleased its OK

[BOXY]

It's a lovely idea that the garage took some oil out by mistake and by filling it back up you've fixed the mis-fire but I can't see how low oil gives you a mis-fire. If there wasn't enough oil to fill the tappets there shouldn't have been enough to turn out the oil light. Did you check the oil level with the van parked on the level after leaving it to settle for 30 minutes after topping up?

[vanisveryrusty]

Yes, it was full when it went in to have work done.
80 miles later it was below minimum and it has no leaks and no oil smoke.
Oil removed by mistake is the only conclusion.
Misfire caused by lack of oil to hydraulic tappets, and resulting effect on valves and combustion chambers.
do you trust oil pressure lights ?
I dont.
Theory agreed by respected garage.
Thats how it was.
And filling with oil has cured all symptoms.
Sounds unusual I agree.
Would never have attributed misfire due to having no oil.
But then, have never driven any car with virtually no oil in it before now.
I now suspect faulty oil light, because it never came on with oil at below minimum.
When ignition is turned on it appears once,before the engine starts, and then goes out before the engine starts.
Then it stays off.
Thats not right.
Surely ?
Which would explain why oil level was too low to fill tappets, (It was below minimum )
And the oil light was not on.

[vanisveryrusty]

All VW vans have a red oil warning light. Contrary to common belief, the oil warning light has nothing to do with oil level. I get calls from people all the time who remark that their oil light is on, but they just checked the oil level with the dip stick and it was fine. That is not the way this warning system works. Rather, the red light comes on when the oil PRESSURE drops too low as determined by an oil pressure switch installed on the engine. No VW van ever came from the factory with an oil pressure gauge or oil level indicator, just a low oil pressure warning light.

VW TECH PAGES>GO WESTY.

[BOXY]

I didn't say the oil light indicated a level. The oil pressure switch is screwed into the crank-case. If there is enough oil to generate pressure to turn the light out there should be more than enough to fill the tappets and certainly enough to stop the engine seizing. VW are hardly going to fit an warning light that doesn't protect the engine from being run with low oil pressure.
If your oil level was dangerously low, the oil would get hotter and thinner. Since pressure is a measure of resistance to flow, the thinner oil would flow more easily and as a result your oil pressure would drop. Your oil pressure warning light is in a round about way a warning of low oil level. If your sump-plug dropped out and you lost all your oil the oil pressure light would again be your only warning of a low oil level.

Goes along at 70mph then drops to 55.

Your original post said you could get to 70 and then drop to 55. How come the low oil didn't make the tappets sound like a machine gun?

[vanisveryrusty]

Did sound like machine gun.
Probably faulty oil pressure switch.
No oil light came on.
Ran bad eventually 10mph max, sounded bad.
replaced loads of electrical items + fuel pump, plus had carb tuned professionaly.
No improvement.
As a last resort checked the oil : Which was full 80 miles ago remember, in a van which doesnt use much orelak any .
Dipstick reading below min
Filled up oil.
Cured.
If it makes no sense to you, ( I agree it not what is usually expected )
Its still what happened.
Maybe it helps others because of its oddness.

Thanks for the input.

[CJH]

Cleaned the ignition amplifier contacts ( waiting for a new one )
Cleaned the ignition amplifier to coil contact on the coil end ( waiting for a new coil)
Topped up the oil from the minimum mark with pint that was under the rear seat, ( no oil warning light showing when driving)

If you did all of these things at the same time, how do you know the oil level was the problem?

[vanisveryrusty]

Didnt do them all at the same time !
I tested it after doing each individual thing.
Nothing had any effect except the oil.
Sorry, what point was you trying to make ?

[BOXY]

What engine have you got in your van? I though WBX had an oil light and a buzzer to warn of low oil pressure. If I found out a garage had drained my oil and I ended up running for 100 miles with low oil I'd be asking them to supply a new engine. If the van would only run at 10mph and low oil was the only problem, it sounds like the engine was a good way to seizing.Did the engine temp go up while you were running around without any oil?

[CJH]

Sorry, what point was you trying to make ?

I wasn't trying to make a point. I was trying to find out what had made you so sure it was the oil. Your earlier post wasn't clear about the testing you'd done, and in fact gave the distinct impression that you considered the ignition amplifier and coil contacts as possible culprits, and it wasn't clear why you had settled on the oil as the real culprit.

Cleaned the ignition amplifier contacts ( waiting for a new one )
Cleaned the ignition amplifier to coil contact on the coil end ( waiting for a new coil)
Topped up the oil from the minimum mark with pint that was under the rear seat, ( no oil warning light showing when driving)

Did the same route as yesterday................................... no symptoms at all.

Oil too low, causing hydraulic tappets to not work properly, causing misfire or partial seizure of valves etc...................... ?
Or was t the cleaned up contacts on the amplifier and coil?

[vanisveryrusty]

I would of thought the cleaned up contacts for amp and coil were the culprits.
Still cant believe they were not.
But the fact remains, the fault did not go away until oil was added.
1.9 wc petrol.
it has light and a buzzer.
If it doesnt light and buzz it seems its not working as it should.
As repeated 3 times before in the posts
New engine demand......................not worth the argument in my view, owners should check their van has oil before trundling down the road.
Engine is now runing fine, and yes it probably was close to seizing as confirmed by local garage.
Compression test is OK.
So it seems i'm lucky this time.
Oil light to fix.

Concludes.

[NicBeeee]

Pleased you got it sorted

[vanisveryrusty]

Thanks Nic
Me too.
I posted the details initially for ideas on the fault, and then, when it was cured for others to maybe gain some tips from the strange occurance.
I didnt post them to convince folk about the oil curing the problem !
If its hard to believe, then its hard to believe.................... I have never experienced it before and probably would be as sceptical if it hadnt happened to me, but there you have it.
Take from it, keep it in your back pocket in case you have the same issues, or disbelieve it, matters not to me.
Thanks again for your good wishes.

[Ralf85]

I don't understand. Where did all the oil go in just 80 miles? That sounds scary.

[ghost123uk]

.

What is wrong with this oil light ?

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I don't understand. Where did all the oil go in just 80 miles? That sounds scary.

No no, one of the mechanics drained most of it out by mistake. It's a funny sort of mechanic that drains most but not all of the oil out, I mean why would you ever do that But apparently they admitted it, and admitted that this then caused the engine to seize up But not to worry eh