Sorry, some more oil change questions!

[davidm]

Hi, Having read the wiki and many threads, at the risk of starting another oil "discussion" can someone please advise? I don't use my camper, 1985 1.9 dg petrol, (130,000 mileage), for at least 8 months of the year. Also summer mileage this year less than 1000. Therefore, is it REALLY necessary to change the oil every 6 months, as the van wont be moving in that time? If yes, please explain why. (Wiki says engine oil has shelf life of 3 yrs)
Also, if I do stick to one oil change a year, should it be just before it's summer use or just after? i.e. new or used oil sitting in engine over winter.
I have read about the benefits of using oil containing ZDDP, but how does one identify if a particular oil has it or indeed if it is in sufficient quantity.
As presently shopping for oil, Eurocarparts have this for £12.49 using promo code and a free filter:
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Volks ... &0&cc5_246" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The oil meets the vw spec, i believe, but does that mean it would have the ZDDP? The free filter being offered is either Bosch or Crosland. Are they any good? Currently use Mann but was going to leave filter unchanged this time as done such a low mileage.

Many thanks

[Ian Hulley]

Change it in the spring OR even better run it through the winter and enjoy the real camping season away from the pious shed-dragging fraternity ... I'll leave it to the copy/paste specialists to blather endlessly about the oil

Ian

[kevtherev]

That oils fine change it every 6,000.

[davidm]

Thanks, I will leave it to the spring. Perhaps I should try some winter, or at least, autumn camping trips but at present I don't think i can justify having it taxed through the winter.

That oils fine change it every 6,000.

If i do that with my present mileage i wont be changing it for 6 years!
Guess that means once a year is fine then? but now tempted to leave it another year if mileage is as low again next summer. Would that be o.k?
I checked the oil level and on the dipstick it still looks like new.
What about the ZDDP? and any thoughts on the filters? I know everyone says Mann, but I would have thought a Bosch filter should be up to scratch?

[pionte]

people get far too obsessed with oil and change schedules.... modern oils can go 20000 miles between changes, my Golf does. Obviously it depends on other factors, I do similar mileage to you and do mine yearly , i do however check the level regularly.

[davidm]

Pionte,

I can see that from previous threads! and the more I have read the more confused I have become. I would like to do what is best for the engine but don't want to waste time and money doing more oil changes than are necessary.

Yes, your van doesn't leave your drive much does it. I drive past it regularly and have only seen it out in the town once. Looks good by the way. Did you realise I am also in Tonbridge?

Can you recommend any good local mechanics that know these vehicles well?

[pionte]

lol it doesnt move much ! The engine was out for a month earlier in the year wich didnt help.

I tend to do all the work myself ( ex ford mechanic in a previous life ! ) It took me 2 years to get the carburettor finally running right ! but I cant afford to pay someone else so I just work it out myself ( with help from here obviously !! )

I am happy to offer any help to you , in exchange for tea and biscuits would be good to catch up sometime... is yours the white van ??

[davidm]

No, tin top Devon "Caravanette" in its original blue paint. There is a white panel van owned by a guy who works at ATS in town. I will look out for you, but mine is off the road now, quite close to you actually, but not at my house. Thanks for the offer. I will bear it in mind!

[California Dreamin]

Engine oil is one of the most stable substances going...think of it this way...it has to withstand repeated heatup and cool down cycles, massive pressure and shear stresses during it's use. It has to resist foaming whilst being spun and thrown in all kinds of directions, keep it's chemical and lubricating integrity whilst being constantly contaminated by water/acid/carbon deposits and a multitude of other chemical contaminates.

After that lot ^^^^^^^^^^^ sitting for 5 years in a sealed can in your garage is a breeze.

Of course manufacturers are going to put a shelf life on their oil products for lots of reasons, for example: packaging and labelling would become damaged, advertising and corporate logo's may change over time, techniological advancements often mean improvements to service longevity and protection.
Oils like every other disposible product are subject to 'planned obsolecence' to encourage users to buy the latest products.

In your particular case I would say you are fine keeping the oil in there for a year or even 2, however, just be aware that if your 'low mileage' includes lots of cold starts (starting the engine every few weeks as you should) this does tend to promote oil thinning caused by petrol washing by the pistons during choke enrichment' (cold start) and 'Baileys' cream forming because of cold engine surfaces and condensation.

Martin

[davidm]

Thanks Martin,
Any thoughts on the filters mentioned, or how to identify if an oil contains the ZDDP additive?

[davidm]

Another question Martin,
How come the recommended service change is (6k miles or) 6 months if that comes first, presumably irrespective of the mileage possibly being very low in that time?

[kevtherev]

ZDDP is present in all mineral oil...some have more than others.
its an additive, you can add it yourself. It's available separately.
As for the service recommended times.
On petrol a lot of carbon is dissolved into the oil from combustion, it's what turns it black. Carbon will then act as an abrasive wearing away mating surfaces quicker
The long chain molecules in oil break over time causing the oil to be less slippy.
Is how I have understood this.

[davidm]

I thought it probably would be present in all mineral oils but have read how levels have been reduced over the years, so was thinking that there should be a way of identifying the content level perhaps by one of the many codes that are used. I was aware that it can be bought separately and added but i don't see the point in buying it separately if you can buy an oil with it already in sufficient quantity.

[kevtherev]

I thought it probably would be present in all mineral oils but have read how levels have been reduced over the years, so was thinking that there should be a way of identifying the content level perhaps by one of the many codes that are used. I was aware that it can be bought separately and added but i don't see the point in buying it separately if you can buy an oil with it already in sufficient quantity.

With less miles in front of your engine than behind I would say the reduced levels will not be detrimental.
There is no way to gauge the level other than contacting the producer...or visiting another site with vintage cars and asking there.
I am happy with morris oils
my VW replacement engine has done only 42,000 from new, so I do need ZDDP. As it will hopefully give me at least 100,000 more

[ghost123uk]

Umm, and I never thought new to me info would come from another oil thread
Plus it's raining outside, so here we go...

I am happy with morris oils

From a supplier of ZDDP

Historically, the anti wear additive used in the majority of oils was a compound known as ZDDP (ZincDialkylDithiophosphate). The phosphorous content of ZDDP and its ash, has a detrimental effect on catalytic emission systems. This has led to new oils being developed to meet modern regulations, which have reduced levels of ZDDP. These new oils may cause serious problems in a classic engine. Add one bottle of ZDDP at each oil change to protect the gears, cam and followers and add life to your engine.

Note: Millers Classic Oils still contain sufficient ZDDP

So that last sentence certainly confirms (as if it needed confirming!) Kev's choice of oil

I have just spent 1/2 an hour researching this ZDDP thing and it seems that Comma Classic and Halfords Classic has it in sufficient quantities too, but I think they are only available as 20/50 (which is not the end of the world imho)

I should say I am interested in this both regarding my two VW flat fours AND my classic British bikes. The bikes of course certainly have old fashioned flat cams, followers and pushrods, but there again, so do VW flat fours. I wonder why / how, in view of the fact that ZDDP is not used in modern oils because of the cat issue, the folks that use the modern stuff don't get the rapid cam wear folks talk of on various forums (Jag, TR's, Rover V8's etc) I have been using a medium priced 15/40 mineral oil in the T25's and Halfords Classic 20/50 in the bikes.