Electric hook up on german van polarity ?

[sternal]

This is the fuse box is it equipped with a circuit breaker?

[AdrianC]

This is the fuse box is it equipped with a circuit breaker?

Yes, the white button, top left, is the test button for the RCD breaker.

With the hook-up plugged in, press the white button, and the blue switch should loudly click off. That's what'll happen if ever there's a problem.

[sternal]

Cheers !


It's all in German !

[RedGus]

Check your connections in the socket are connected the right way round Live to Live, Neutral to Neutral, Earth to Earth. It has been known on the continent for the polarity to be reversed.
AC voltage the neutral cable is grounded at he power/substation in theory you shouldn't get a shock off the neutral it should have the same potential difference as the earth. As we normally use single pole switching on the live cable at the sockets then any appliance switched off only has the same potential difference as the earth if the polarity is wrong then the appliance is still live.

^^^ WHS

AC Phase and Neutral are not the same "because it's alternating current". To satisfy yourself of this, set a multimeter to AC and check the voltage on your home consumer unit (taking all necessary precautions not to electrocute yourself ). You should find that phase is around 230V relative to earth and neutral is 0V, as bigherb said.

If phase and neutral connections are reversed, there is a potential that any fault on the system in the van - such as a phase wire coming loose and touching a metal part of the van - won't register as a fault as far as the RCD is concerned. The result of this would be that anyone in the van, or touching it from outside, could get a mains voltage shock.

Anyone doing this kind of work in a building needs to be a "competent person", since the introduction of Part P of the Building Regs. Not sure that it applies to vehicles with mains installations, but it still has the potential to kill you if it's not installed correctly.

[AdrianC]

If phase and neutral connections are reversed, there is a potential that any fault on the system in the van - such as a phase wire coming loose and touching a metal part of the van - won't register as a fault as far as the RCD is concerned. The result of this would be that anyone in the van, or touching it from outside, could get a mains voltage shock.

Just one thing to say, Gus...

[RedGus]

Just one thing to say, Gus...

I'm not sure what that picture of a Continental hook up adapter is saying.

If we go back to what the OP was asking, he was (perfectly reasonably) asking if the polarity of the mains hookup wiring on his German van may be reversed relative to the UK normal arrangement for Phase and Neutral. He was advised by some that it didn't matter one way or the other. Bigherb, correctly IMHO, pointed out that it DOES matter that Phase at the socket = Phase at the consumer unit, and so on. If the OP intends to start using his van in the UK, connected to a British mains hook-up, I would have thought that the simplest thing for him to do is check that the wiring on his van conforms to the UK standard arrangement.



The problem would be that, if the Phase and Neutral connections were installed the other way round, you wouldn't necessarily notice any difference in normal use. However, if you had a fault that tripped one of the MCBs (which are usually only on the Phase side in this country), the devices attached to the MCB would turn off, but they and their wiring would remain "live", as bigherb pointed out in his very clear post. The same would apply if any of the plug fuses blew. If it didn't matter at all whether mains connections were made one way or the other "because it's alternating current", then why would we bother to use different colours for Phase and Neutral?

James

[AdrianC]

Just one thing to say, Gus...

I'm not sure what that picture of a Continental hook up adapter is saying.

If we go back to what the OP was asking, he was (perfectly reasonably) asking if the polarity of the mains hookup wiring on his German van may be reversed relative to the UK normal arrangement for Phase and Neutral. He was advised by some that it didn't matter one way or the other. Bigherb, correctly IMHO, pointed out that it DOES matter that Phase at the socket = Phase at the consumer unit, and so on. If the OP intends to start using his van in the UK, connected to a British mains hook-up, I would have thought that the simplest thing for him to do is check that the wiring on his van conforms to the UK standard arrangement.

Simple... Take one of those connectors, and make sure you always plug it in the "right way round". It ain't gonna happen... So if it doesn't matter when you're in mainland Europe, why's it so important over here?

The RCD cuts both off, after all.

[bigherb]

The instruction when using two pin converters has always been to carry and use a polarity checker and fit the plug the right way round or use a crossover adapter if the polarity is the wrong way round.
Campers/Caravans are hostile environments for mains electricity, plenty of condensation, nice wet grass to step onto etc.
It might not be so much of a problem in some places on the continent where double pole switching is used but if you are using UK sockets do you really want your toaster covered in condensation first thing in the morning still throbbing with 230 volts.

[AdrianC]

The instruction when using two pin converters has always been to carry and use a polarity checker and fit the plug the right way round or use a crossover adapter if the polarity is the wrong way round.

Strange that there's no mention whatsoever of that in the official Westfalia handbook...

Campers/Caravans are hostile environments for mains electricity, plenty of condensation, nice wet grass to step onto etc.

Wouldn't the bodywork being earthed to the hookup, and thereby the RCD, totally neutralise any risk from that?

It might not be so much of a problem in some places on the continent where double pole switching is used but if you are using UK sockets do you really want your toaster covered in condensation first thing in the morning still throbbing with 230 volts.

How would a UK socket increase the risk, considering Euro sockets aren't fused or even switched anyway?

[RedGus]

Adrian, this is all getting a bit argumentative!

Bigherb and I are just trying to pass on some electrical facts, so that the OP can get an answer to his question. It really is a good idea to observe correct mains polarity in any situation, be that in your house, or your van, boat, caravan, etc. It's all the same electricity. As I said earlier, if it didn't matter, then all the wires in a mains installation could be the same colour and we wouldn't need to bother with all of that brown and blue business. It's really not good electrical practice to rely on an RCD to save your life when a fault develops due to an incorrect installation. Can you be sure that every campsite hook-up has a perfect earth connection, or that your van body and every metal component in it are earth bonded? If not, then that RCD you're relying on won't work at all.

The switching that bigherb is referring to relates to MCBs at the consumer unit, I presume. In the UK we only have single-pole RCDs, on the Phase side, but in some European countries (notably France) the MCBs are double-pole. I, and bigherb, outlined earlier the problem with reverse polarity on an installation with single-pole switching. A fault could develop that was not an earth potential difference fault, so not tripping the RCD, but where a fuse or MCB blows/trips. In this situation, an appliance would appear to be "off", but would still be completely "live" at 230V Phase potential, but not "on" because the fuse on the Neutral side had blown. Anyone attempting to work on a device they thought was "off" could get a nasty surprise!

Anyway, I'm not really in the mood for an argument just for the sake of it, but just trying to pass on some fairly simple information to answer the OP's first query.

Cheers,

James

[AdrianC]

Adrian, this is all getting a bit argumentative!

Not my intent at all... I'm just baffled here by these claims of total unsafety, given that 99% of campers and motorhomes in European campsites are just plugging in either way round with absolutely no qualms whatsoever - and given that Westfalia's own handbook makes no mention of it at all. The only time we saw a polarity checker in use was in the hands of one set of British caravanners...

Can you be sure that every campsite hook-up has a perfect earth connection, or that your van body and every metal component in it are earth bonded? If not, then that RCD you're relying on won't work at all.

Isn't that precisely why there's a test button on it?