why were these removed when the pushrod seals were replaced

Post by **billybigspud** » 29 Jul 2013, 19:09

Come on, shout, really? If he did then you must have wound him up. You seem to do it quite well with people on here.

Post by **sternal** » 29 Jul 2013, 19:31

Re: why were these removed when the pushrod seals were replaced
by billybigspud » 18 minutes ago

Come on, shout, really? If he did then you must have wound him up. You seem to do it quite well with people on here.

Thank you for your constructive and mature reply which is uncalled for if asking why he didn't refit them is winding him up perhaps he should have refitted them in the first place!

Once again thank you for your reply !

Post by **R0B** » 29 Jul 2013, 20:31

I don't think sternal has done anything to wind anyone up.Has someone got a gun to your head making you read his posts?

Post by **max and caddy** » 29 Jul 2013, 23:14

As stated earlier...vw don't tend to fit "shoulder parts" so if leaving something out on purpose he should have a good reason to back it up...not a shouty reason.

Post by **Plasticman** » 30 Jul 2013, 07:30

No reference to the above but....is there a groove in the base of the pedestal or in the head for the wire to sit in ? I ask as it would seem odd to have it sandwiched between the two, surely this then would prevent the pedestals seats completely flat ??
mm

Post by **Ian Hulley** » 30 Jul 2013, 08:30

metalmick8y wrote:No reference to the above but....is there a groove in the base of the pedestal or in the head for the wire to sit in ? I ask as it would seem odd to have it sandwiched between the two, surely this then would prevent the pedestals seats completely flat ??
mm

WHS ^^

Ian

Post by **Plasticman** » 30 Jul 2013, 08:35

i would ask messrs sarran but i fear he is somewhat involved at the mo

mm

Post by **Ian and Lins** » 30 Jul 2013, 08:39

Time to learn to work on your own engine methinks

Don't pay monkeys to bugger about with things they don't understand.[/quote]

Quite right; I monkey about with things I don't understand on my own van entirely for free.

Post by **Allanw** » 30 Jul 2013, 08:43

Ian Hulley wrote: The pushrod tubes have an in-built tension in that they are compacted as the head is tightened down...

The type 4 ones aren't squished between the head and the case. After the heads are bolted on, you can fit type 4 tubes - they just slide in the holes - the friction of the O rings, and that wire "spring" are the ONLY things holding them in. They were actually quite a neat idea - way easier to fix leaks on, than the type 1 engine (where the head had to come off, or spring loaded tubes used)

I guess (in theory) not fitting them, but using sealer would hold the o rings in place and stop the tubes moving. However, I'd sure want them fitted - if a tube drops out, can you imagine the amount of oil that runs out????? The tubes MUST move up and down slightly in the bores as the engine expands/contracts, so the sealer probably won't last forever.

I sure don't see much advantage in leaving them out though.

Post by **sternal** » 30 Jul 2013, 10:49

thank you for your replies even though are greek to me at the mo I really appreciate your input and gives me a better understanding

All I can say is that 3 years ago the push rods where changed (before I owned) to what i don't have a clue, solid ones (?) and it doesnt have hydrolic tappets anymore... again I cant tell you anymore than that...I am not near the paperwork at the mo (will be this eve) I have spoken to my trusted everyday car mechanic and he says okay for the mo but he will refit them on a quiet day in Sept ! (the only reason he didn't do the job is because hes booked up solid till end of aug)
I'm not going back to Chris cross motors for them to do so its going to cost me for a job that should have been completed in the first place ! all a learning curve (even at 40yrs old )

Post by **horizontal kipper** » 30 Jul 2013, 11:06

I wouln't be surprised if your so called Aircooled monkey has put the rocker arm stands on with the grove for the retaning wire facing up instead of down realised his mistake when trying to fit the reataining wire and couldn't be bothered to take the extra 10mins of refiting the correct way so left them out.

Post by **blacky** » 30 Jul 2013, 14:27

I wouldn't go back, and my memory of these tells me you can fit them without loosening the rocker shaft nuts. They simply clip into grooves on the square rocker shaft pedastels and they press onto the shoulder of the pushrod tubes right at the bottom of the pushrod tube holes in the head, thats the only tricky bit but if one pops off the shoulder and into the tube its easily pushed back onto top shoulder of tube with a screwdriver. Buy new rocker cover gaskets, remove cover and offer up springs loosely , look for slots in rockershaft pedastel to see where spring sits and look for shoulder of pushrod tube to see other spring contact point which keeps tube pushed inwards to centre of vehicle.

Post by **BOXY** » 30 Jul 2013, 17:45

is there a groove in the base of the pedestal or in the head for the wire to sit in ? I ask as it would seem odd to have it sandwiched between the two, surely this then would prevent the pedestals seats completely flat ??

Just had a look at my garage door-stop and there isn't a groove, or a mark to suggest the wire is trapped under the rocker assembly.

Post by **sarran1955** » 30 Jul 2013, 19:42

Hello,

Following with interest..

I can confirm that there is no installing groove under the rocker pedestals..

Like I said.. these seem to be a genuine VW retro bodge..

When you have done a few....

They are still awful..

But they were researched.. drawn.. prototyped..tested.. put into production ...

For a good reason..

As said above.. the only thing that holds the tubes in place..without the springs....are the 'O' ring ,, green and black.. oil seals..

When you fit them new.. they are such a good fit that you need plenty of oil and an accurate drift not to 'tear' the oil seal as it goes in..

posted in Ooops..

So if you leave things as they are... you run a reasonable risk of one or more tubes breaking loose and starting to leak..

When properly built VW aircooleds should not leak ...

..and VW did put those springs in........

Wait till you discover the heater thermostat and wongy flaps syndrome..

sternal..... have you done the right thing buying a non pedigree 30 year old Aircooled breadvan..... if you can't seriously work on it yourself..

Buy it....restore it.... ride it....

Its a VW thing..

Cordialement,

Post by **blacky** » 30 Jul 2013, 20:15

As per boxy's pic there is no groove there because the groove is not in the head but in the squareish steel block that the rockershaft nut tightens on to. Its on the underside of the block. if you look at sarran's pic of the head with spring in place it shows exactly where the spring would fit into the groove if rockershaft was in place. Take cover off, offer spring up and sharply curved end follows contour of inside of head centre piece of spring goes into groove of rocker shaft support in middle of shaft and two grooves on end supports take ends of springs. It will all be apparent when you look.