Paint Your Wagon - with a roller!

[CovKid]

You can't flat back a day later. I must have said this hundreds of times.

[HarryMann]

No, but I've often de-nibbed dry with 240 very gently taking great care at the edges.
A couple of provisos... de-dust the paper almost every few strokes knock it out and brush off continually with something like a big wallpaper brush; I was given a load of 3M Gold hookits years ago. They de dust and clean up for hours even when blocked with awkward blurring old paint so rate them highly...
I really think quality abrasives can make a big difference to the ability to flat a somewhat ripe surface, used carefully.

I also don't bother going finer than 240 between coats - I see this as one of the great advantages of rollering.

Tend to just use 80, 120 mesh style abrasives and 180, 240 papers... never fully produced a totally finished surface like Ralph & Co. yet, but then I like bit of orange peel gloss and it is a Syncro after all

[HarryMann]

Well, tried it for size to put money where mouth is... on a locker door (off vehicle)
Painted first coat approx 10 am
Flatted back v.gingerly about 8 pm after a hot afternoon baking it off and painted about 9pm.

As Ralph says, wouldn't recommend it! ...but possibly got away with it on a small panel. Wouldn't try it on a whole body panel, even in this heat.

NB. First coat was very thin, overthinned paint I think.

NB2. Takes probably 3 times as long to flat when not fully dry

[RobMS88]

Hello everyone,

Hope everyone is enjoying the hot weather.

I am about to take the plunge in the not too distant future, and I have had a practice on a panel of mild steel, but only with a paint brush so far as I am yet to get the rollers.

I have got my thinner ratio as I like it so as to not introduce the orange peel effect too much. However, with the paint brush, I get what I can only
describe as a ripple effect, like you are looking into a swimming pool when you look at it in the sun.

I have done two coats. First coat flatted back to a matt finish after a week to harden in the sun. Second coat hardening now.

My question is this. Would this symptom dissapear with flatting back and polishing in end? I definitely know it is not orange peel. I know what that is. The ripple is in the direction that the brush was used. Does this not happen with a roller?

If people want to see, I can get some photos up, if they can capture what I mean.

Regards

Robert

[Silky]

You'd get a much better finish with a roller - I tried a brush around the tight areas on mine (above windows etc) and it looked quite amateur in comparison - perhaps I'm just crap with a paint brush, but the roller was a doddle in comparison. I did find blemishes could be sanded out but depending on how bad they were and how many coats I had applied.

[browneyes1311]

Ok I but a mere woman . what does flat or flatten back mean. My Myrtle desperately needs repainting after her welding job or else you lot are going to say what are you doing going out with that scruffy bugger when I meet you.

Im going to give this a go, I was thinking of coacj paint as itys self levelling but this looks good too. Any thoughts on which is better?

Also would I need to thin coacjh paint or better of sticking with this one . And when you say 25 % thinning I presume you mean 1 litre of paint 250ml of white spirit.

Cmon folks expalin it in simple terms I want to make Myrtle pretty again

[HarryMann]

Browneyes,
It's all in this thread, in the Wikipedia and on the DVD that Ralph Covkid will send you if you order it... a lot of information in that one source.
25 % seems far too thin IMHO.
This whole thread focuses on one make of paint.. Rustoleum Combicolor. A really good brush minimises brush strokes but for any proper area mini gloss rollers are the way to go, filling in difficult areas with sponges (make up sponges seem to suffice)

[browneyes1311]

Thank you.

Il go back through the thread then and try to glean as much info as possible. I quickly skimmed the Wilki and the You Tube vid,

I dont have make up sponges but have those lil paint sponges on a stick I hoping they wil do or is make up sponge better. I belive poundshop do about ten for a pound

Stil want to know what term 'flattening' means

[Silky]

Flattening is sanding (it's all in the wiki) and it really is worth buying new rollers if you haven't got any -preferable to using a brush or whatever you've got lying around in my humble opinion. The finish depends on the preparation but also the materials used, why bugger it up for the sake of spending a tenner on good rollers?

[HarryMann]

Yes sponges on a stick correct things... not always easy to get everything. 'Stipple' with these rather than brush... and load them up well. Combicolor has good spreading and brushability at about 10% thinned and will self-level well. Do not worry even a second about an orange-peel effect; it is a sign of good paint transfer and a nice gloss coat IMO and flats back (if necessary) easily.

If you've got a Costco nearby get their Nitrile surgical gloves (2 x 200 packs). They are thin enough to put 2 or 3 on over each other and peel off and chuck if you get too sticky fingers...
Some heavier gloves for flatting down, like Tornado gloves. Think protection! Change hands and grip frequently to protect those digits. .. With those gloves can even use kitchen stainless wire scourers for scurfing out flaky paint and rust in difficult areas.


Even having some baby wipes about can be used for wiping paint off where its not supposed to have gone.
Flatting is generally done in one direction, it is NOT a scrubbing action. Go very gently on edges or up a fineness grade of paper (e.g. 180 to 240) and learn to fold the paper in various ways to help. Don't let the paper 'block', every few strokes flip it against a post or fixed surface with a whipping action a few times... this works well but can't be done with a block, so bang that flat on a board or the ground...always have a large dry brush to hand for keeping panel dust free. Work panel by panel.. it is repetitive and can be boring so set yourself an achievable task, not a a whole side. As Covkid repeatedly says, if possible have a mate help when rollering.. one with a good eye and some interest, not one you've had to force march to the job


You will need a rubber flatting block for large areas, don't get an inflexible plastic cheap £shop one, yellow ones are usually good and about a fiver will last a lifetime. Learn to hold it with a squeezing action to preform into a curve to suit the major panel contour.
Block particularly important when rubbing down filler to avoid waviness and blending with paint edges which have a higher resistance to sanding.

If brushing an area stroke in same direction as main axis; = same dirn. as flatting action so minor scratches are filled.. usually equates to horizontal.

Buy plenty of mini foam gloss rollers and a few trays.
An extra wide reel of clingfilm can be helpful to wrap a tray in overnight or during a v.hot day.
Watch the vids, and don't expect perfection... it always looks better afterwards. . Just watch for big runs, you can mop them up with a sponge or roller them back in up to 5 mins later, not ideal and might upset the finish locally but better than having a thick uncured run to remove.

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Worry more about good even coverage and getting paint into all the difficult spots, coat after coat than the actual finish.

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If you can spend a day working with a time served bodyshop painter/prepper then you'll learn a helluva lot v.quickly.

[HarryMann]

That's dry flatting of course... for wet 2 pails or bowls, drop of fairy liquid in the water, try to keep one cleaner than t'other for washing off; a sponge and drying off cloth. Grit and dirt on your paper and in water are your enemies so protect from gusty winds and change when convenient etc. Rinse paper off frequently removing paint paste. Keep paper flooded and sponge off now & again to see what's matted off and what's still gloss... dry off before leaving for any length of time.

Even when rollering don't be averse to a bit of masking up. It means you csn move faster NB. Some tape doesn't last any time on reel before stickiness dries or prevents unravelling. Keep out of direct sunlight (like nearly everything) and don't unwrap till you need it.. light & oxygen are its enemies

[browneyes1311]

So really now is not the time to do it. But I can still get the bits and pieces all ready and rub down and prime the last lil bits so Im all ready to go. Ive got loads of surgical gloves as I use them for my soap and candle making.

Dont laugh at my tatty girl if you meet me I love her I just find it a bit hard doing her up on my own so all your advice has been greatly appreciated even if some of you must have been thinking what the eck doesnt this person know anything

I tried to buy the dvd last night but I couldnt get past the registration page grrr so im going to put up a post on the wanted page to se if anyone hasa copy they want to get rid of

[HarryMann]

.... even if some of you MUST HAVE been thinking ....

Tick !

All I'm thinking is you know your English grammar better than most

[RobMS88]

OK, I posted earlier on this page (165) asking about the difference between a brush and a roller and you kind people replied saying that I'd get a much better finish with a roller. That said, I had a go on an old bit of mild steel that I had around with a roller this afternoon in the garage after work. I cleaned off dirt and grease with white spirit and let dry. I rolled with good results thinning wise, technique wise etc as I did not get runs. I think I have the consistency about right.

I did, however, get lots of little lumps in it. It looks like dirt or something. It looks like you could scratch them off with your finger nail.

Does anyone know what this could be? For example, is it because it was on a sheet of steel? If anyone knows why it did this, maybe I can figure out a way to stop it happening when I do my car. Or, if I cannot stop it, maybe I can get rid of them when I do a final flat and polish.

If anyone could chime in on whether they have experienced this, I would be greatful. When I get to doing my job, I will let everyone know my good / bad experieces so I can potentially help people. If you need pictures, I will get them up if I can figure out how. I might post links to photobucket.

Regards

Rob

[HarryMann]

No idea what they are Rob... because not around to watch and see what you are doing. They must be introduced....! Somehow!

Been meaning to say....

Cleanliness is Godliness with painting so how clean is everything around your mixing station, the tin lids, pots and trays. .. all spotless?

I degrease by the way with a degreaser that flashes off, like Citrus degreaser, or a thinners. Might be wrong, prob am, but find White Spirit a bit too oily for wiping down.

What did you flat and key that steel with before rollering? Soapy wet and dry 240? Or just dry?

Put a good focused closeup up and we'll all speculate on your contamination. .