Alternative instruments and switchgear

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Fin
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by Fin »

Yeh I'd travel back in time and buy a new split screen, then flog it on once here...
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by silverbullet »

Just a thought on the CE1 vs CE2 and changing to T4 stalks: IIRC the 1995 SA has slightly different plugs for them, my last thought was "that'll be a pain when they play up" but it might be a bonus in the end. Are the T4 ones very different? I'd only want a basic set of indicators 'n' wipers, anyone got a good source for T4 breakers?

PS I'll have to get a good nosey at the truck when at Coney Farm.
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by syncroandy »

Ian, I'm not sure what was fitted to the SA buses, could have been some odd special I suppose. Back in the late '80's, VW was using 'CE1' stalks on most cars, then switched over to 'CE2' around 1990. Some cars eg. Golf Mk2 saw both versions, but they didn't bother upgrading the T3 so it kept CE1 till the end (in Europe). The differences in the stalks mounting and connections on the back are obvious, you could pop your steering wheel and check quite easily. For reference, some pics, CE1 (T3) top, CE2 (Golf) bottom:

Image

Image
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by silverbullet »

Thanks Andy, got it now. Quite obvious with a pic. I'll take a peek at the SA in a bit.

So Golf 2 gives me a choice, but I'd rather have the T4 gear as they will be the correct length for the wheel radius.
85 syncro Caravelle twin slider Oettinger T3200E-6
90 SA Microbus supercharged wbx/UN1 project
52 Audi A2 1.4 SE with lots of toys

http://www.025motorsport.com

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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by syncroandy »

Image

Got impatient to get the CE2 lighting switch fitted, so I popped it in today and spliced it onto the existing T3 dash harness. I used a spare air vent, and chopped the first inch or so off it to make a sleeve into which the switch slides after cutting parts of it away. Its securely held in place by a hidden screw, so no risk of it pulling out when you put on the foglight. The hazard switch is between the stalks, you can just see it peeping up in the photo.

The drivers air vent got moved up, after removing the side window vent and enlarging the hole. Time will tell if the air vent will effectively serve the dual purpose of side window de-misting and providing air to the driver, hopefully it will be OK.

I felt this was the neatest way to fit the new switch, I had considered fitting it below the vent but this would have unavoidably been less tidy. This way, there are no non-VW bits needed apart from one 1/2" screw to hold the switch in place.

The space at each side of the cluster is now vacant, and I think I may move two 2" gauges there.

The CE2 upgrade is pretty much ready to fit, the new dash harnesses are made up and ready on the bench, and I have the big list of connections done. Just need a window of a few days to install it, plus do a few other 'dashboard out' jobs.
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Fin
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by Fin »

I was thinking of installing some USB sockets in my dash by sinking one of those cheap Ciggy lighter adaptors into a hole next to the current lighter socket and then just wire it accross - it'd be nice to have both
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by CovKid »

No, don't do it. Think about it. There are so many different types of those. If it ever blows, you may not get a replacement and then you'll have an awkward hole. USB socket well worth having but go for something more widely used or at least industry standard.
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by Fin »

The hole I was going to make is the same as the Ciggy lighter one - so if it all goes Tit's up I could just install another lighter socket..
Suppose I could just do that anyway...
ta - something to think about..
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by syncroandy »

Thread bump for a sneaky peek at the interface board for my dash adapter kit, the first batch landed today. It's my first commercially-made board of this size and its a special feeling to hold something in your hand that you've spent weeks at on the computer ! I've had them done with gold plating for durability. The plan is to have some samples of the complete unit at busfest. for folk to have a look at, I should have a price by then and be able to take orders (and fulfil several pre-orders).

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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by lloydy »

Nice! :ok
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by garry247 »

I saw this on youtube. This guy put an Audi A8 Dashboard in his T25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVlzR0Npqq4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by silverbullet »

Think we've already had that one a few pages back? Rather devisive, you either love or hate the "big car" look.
85 syncro Caravelle twin slider Oettinger T3200E-6
90 SA Microbus supercharged wbx/UN1 project
52 Audi A2 1.4 SE with lots of toys

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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by doka_90 »

Oh My...This is exactly what I am struggling with right now. Fuel sender and other TDI MK4 cluster into T3 Vanagon - can you guide me through this integration?!
Pat aka "doka_90"


syncroandy wrote:Right, a bit of progress to report on the 3B Passat cluster, the fuel gauge is fully sorted !


The problem was that the resistance characteristic of the Passat fuel sender is the opposite to that used on most earlier VW's, including the T3, T4 and Mk3 Golf.

It now is reading the correct way round, and zero with an empty tank, 1/2 with a half-full tank, and full with a full tank.

Plus, via VAGCOM/VCDS, it is actually reading the correct fuel volumes in litres, all the way from empty to full !

To get definitive T3 sender data, I spent all yesterday afternoon siphoning all the diesel out of my pickup, and then re-filling it, 2 litres at a time, all the way to 70 litres, recording the sender resistance at each point.

I made use of Excel to record the data, and to determine the best-fit curves from which I was able to derive the new values needed. Its a bit too much data to post up here, but as an example here's the Syncro vs Passat sender resistance data:


It took quite a bit of time and effort to achieve this, I've been tinkering with it on and off since last year. The most time has been taken figuring out the necessary changes to the onboard microprocessor EEPROM, which it uses for various data, eg.

Fixed configuration data such as tacho and speedo scales, petrol/diesel etc.
Variable configuration data changeable via adaptations in VAGCOM, such as auto/manual trans, fitted options, service interval reminder and so on.
Security data such as immobilizer codes and keys
Odometer data, eg. total and trip mileage

Aftermarket software is available, which using a generic ODB cable can read and write the EPROM, and modify the behaviour of the cluster. Some of the configuration data is well understood, and standardised across many versions of cluster. The software can make 'automatic' changes to this data, however most of the data is not so well understood and any changes must be made by manually using a HEX editor, on a saved dump of the EPROM, based on guesswork, experience, and trial-and-error.

After some time spent on various internet forums, I was able to establish that the data controlling the fuel gauge is held in three main tables, plus a few other bits I didn't have to be concerned with. Each table contains 8 data points, corresponding to 8 gauge needle positions, and the microprocessor controlling the stepper motors interpolates between these resulting in continuous smooth needle movement. The 8 positions are Empty, Reserve, 1/4 Full, 1/2 Full, 3/4 Full, 'Nearly Full', Full, Full (yes, twice).

The first table contains values representing the resistance read from the sender by the gauges A/D converter. I think its purpose may be to cope with the non-linearity of tank/sender. I had to modify this to accommodate the lower resistance of the T3 sender, and its different characteristic curve.

The second table contains values which map the actual fuel volume to the resistance of the sender. I had to modify this table, (a) to reverse the mapping fuel volume-> resistance, (b) modify total volume 60-70l to cope with the T3's larger tank.

The third table I didn't have to change, this determines the physical stepper motor position for each of the eight needle positions.

For testing the EPROM changes I used a spare Syncro tank sender rigged up to a cluster on the bench.


One problem I had was that at absolute 'Full' reading (minimum sender resistance), the Passat gauge would suddenly drop to zero ! After some research I established this was because the cluster has a predetermined minimum feasible sender resistance, below which it assumes a sender fault and logs a fault. I simply worked around this by adding a 10 ohm resistor in series, and adjusting the A/D converter table slightly.

This may all seem completely OTT, but I feel it was worth it, as I am completely committed to using a more modern instrument cluster, and it has to be 100% functional are else it would be just annoying. Having accurate fuel data is if course important when trying to reliably establish engine fuel consumption. Finally I have the satisfaction of having the most accurate Syncro fuel gauge its possible to have !

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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by silverbullet »

Thread revival!

Not VAG, but a personal favourite for a stand-alone mid-80's instrument pod with a familiar typeface, You'll need separate switchgear and a means to convert the rpm from a V8 though:

Image

PS It's dark grey, not brown and those dates are wrong for UK market. Only fitted from mid-84 through 85, late BA chassis Range Rover. Clip-on cable drive speedo and you can use the choke warning light for glow plugs iirc
85 syncro Caravelle twin slider Oettinger T3200E-6
90 SA Microbus supercharged wbx/UN1 project
52 Audi A2 1.4 SE with lots of toys

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Re: Alternative instruments and switchgear

Post by silverbullet »

Yikes! This was a while ago... I have only just been able to locate an example of the above RR instrument pod :D

£42 quid on ebay with some other CDL motors so I may even get my money back if they work!

So now the questions: the tacho is for a V8, so will read half speed when receiving impulses from a 4-cylinder coil. I could possibly get a tacho from a 4-cylinder Rover SD1 and use the guts from that, it may even be the same instrument.
I think these were made by Jaeger (despite the face lettering looking like VDO of the period) being as Rover Cars always used Jaeger for their main instruments in the 60's and 70's

The speedo cable connection says Jaeger "made in france" and is a screw-on, the two 10-pin ribbon connectors are unmarked :roll: so it may be easier to ask around the LR breakers and get a loom cut.

What to do about switchgear for lights etc? I can see a central pod from Mud-stuff loaded with Carling switches (the RR gear was a mishmash of BL leftovers, the auxiliary panel used switches from an Austin Princess (the REAL wedge)
http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/products/mud- ... udpod.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
85 syncro Caravelle twin slider Oettinger T3200E-6
90 SA Microbus supercharged wbx/UN1 project
52 Audi A2 1.4 SE with lots of toys

http://www.025motorsport.com

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