Pierburg 2E3 problems - on-going faults, read this!

[silverbullet]

Just one more thing...before I refit the carb, I'm sure that I saw a factory-type diagram somewhere that said that the 2E3 choke heater/spring should be set up so that when stone cold, the first press of the accelerator (to set the choke) should put the fast idle screw just onto the highest step of the cam. Is this correct?
I can't recall where I saw the drawing but it's not in the Haynes Book of Lies

[kevtherev]

It is correct

[silverbullet]

Thank'ee kind sir

[silverbullet]

Ok so here's the final instalment. After a bit of "off-brand" 2e3 forum research, I re-set the CO screw to 2 turns out from wound right in. This made the idle hunt up and down like a good'un, once the choke had warmed up and shut off, a good 500rpm, but it would still eventually stall.

So in 1/4 turn increments I wound the CO screw out at each re-start, with the idle stability improving every time and finally settling down at around the 3 turns mark. (I don't have a CO meter at the moment) This concurs with info on other forums for a base-line setting. I had to se-set the idle speed to 900 each time too.
I also re-set the choke gap to 2.5mm as this also seems to be the general concensus for later 2e3 (and 2e4)

It's now got a rock solid idle, easy starting, no more acrid pong and I'll see if the auto choke is about correct in the morning when it's stone cold again. It also goes quite well when given the beans but a bit "flat" below 2000 so maybe a bit more then 5 degrees advance at idle is needed? Definitely seems more "cammy" with the speedshop exhaust & modified hedgehog, not like the DJ with the JP standard system.

Either way, it's sorted.

[HarryMann]

More advance isn't always more pizazz, in fact at low to mid range, sometimes, a goodly basic setting (what some might think retarded) is what's needed and let the centrifugal do the advancing

NB. Excessive retard would be trumpeted by backfiring as in very weak mixture too

Discovered this on a hand-built and slighlty breathed-on FIAT SOHC 1600.... once I realised my mistake and got static setting back to about the right place, went like a scaled cat, from 1,500 to 7,000, highly modified emulsion tubes to get mixture right at the top end... but was running it stupidly advanced for far too long before realising I was on the wrong tack with the static timing!

[silverbullet]

Thanks Clive, I can see the logic in that. One thing that I am going to try is increasing the overall system length of the exhaust as I have to tweak it a bit for max. possible departure angle i.e nothing between tyres, moustache bar and bumper.
IIRC Slobbo improved the performance of his VR6 syncro quite a bit thanks to longer pipes.

[HarryMann]

Yes, that VR6 was known to have a somewhat short and mismatched exhaust when i first came across it at Vanfest

Should improve your cylinder filling at lower to mid rpm, maybe then tolerating a tad more advance ?

[silverbullet]

We shall see, one for the spring methinks. Currently timed at barely 5 degrees and smooth as it should be, very pleasant. Departure angle sorted in principle (I just managed to get the parts made before work went mad, but not yet fitted)
In the meantime, I have given in and ordered a Peirburg/Pierburg rebuild kit from that fine son of York. I suspect that the acceleration pump/part-load valve have given their best after 106k and I cannot put up with the awful stutter when gently breathing on the throttle. The engine will thank me too!

[ghost123uk]

Just to say I read all that with interest

[fatfrosty1966]

Wow, great thread, have read with much interest and some concern, I have purchased a 2.1 van using the carb set as a swap for the fuel injection it originally came supplied with from the factory, i imagine I have no hope of setting this carb right until I find and fit the correct water hoses that connect to the choke and manifold,due to the cold and snow of the past week I have set the carb so that I can at least use the van but I know it is running way off the mark.

Any more info on this conversion would be great

[ghost123uk]

You should see the Pierburgs fitted to Scirocco's (etc), very similar but more complex, with a control unit on the relay panel and iirc 8 vac hoses that are mostly at the rear of the carb and cannot be got at without removing it. The full manual for that (2E2) carb is 28 pages long Here if you ever need it. So many folk with Sciroccos ditch the (very good) Pierburg and fit a Webber ( ), just because they cannot get their heads around all the functions, pipes, sensors and solenoids. It doesn't help when the Haynes shows the black and white one way valve in one of the vac lines the wrong way around !! I know ours pretty well after having an "I am not giving up and fitting a Webber" attitude ! If anyone needs info there is plenty HERE Note though that is NOT quite the same as the T25 version, but there is lots of knowledge that is common.

E D I T = this post of mine is a bit off topic

[kevtherev]

I have found the pierburg to be very good at the job its asked of.
A better route would be twin delorto drla's
Fantastic power increase and on the 2.1 has an awsome effect on mid range.
Grin inducing power..and the same grin as you watch the fuel gauge fall over backwards.
I will say that driven without inducing grins it's a bit more respectable
Power on a tap.

Bonus element for petrol heads is the induction roar as you open said taps.

[Ian Hulley]

i imagine I have no hope of setting this carb right until I find and fit the correct water hoses that connect to the choke and manifold,

There are 2 hoses ... one from the manifold to the choke housing which resembles this .. but which reduces in size on the thinner end where it goes onto the housing (these are obsolete but I managed to buy 2 pre-appreciated ones quite easily once I realised I didn't have a spare one) and this .. http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_spares_Wat ... StartRow=1where the thinner end goes to the choke housing. There is a reinforced section on that hose where it passes over the alternator bracket ... this is often cable-tied to the bracket to prevent fraying.

Hope this helps you.

Ian

[ghost123uk]

I was just seeing if I could help fatfrosty1966 by locating that obsolete hose when I accidentally came across a picture of it by our own fairywinds on photobucket, via a google search =



Not much help I know

If I needed one (I would use my spare one ) or go to the breakers and find 2 bits of any hose, 1 with the right size for 1 end and 1 right for the other, then slide one into the other with a bit of metal (copper ?) pipe to allow a jubilee clip to be tightened down on the join. I already have 1 (other) hose on my TinTop done like this. Been OK for a few years

[Ian Hulley]

The main issue is that they change sizes and turn tight corners. I'm working on a photo so bear with me.

Ian