Diesel pump timing - help required.

[williamraff]

My pump is covered in yellow paint - can I assume from that, that it has been set up properly?

yup! its called anti tamper paint

Says it all really

[nevill3]

I have posted this many times now but it is invaluable in determining where to start looking for problems.

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-engine-smoke.php

Click on the little arrows next to the fault you think you may have to read more.

Good Luck

[williamraff]

I have posted this many times now but it is invaluable in determining where to start looking for problems.

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-engine-smoke.php

Click on the little arrows next to the fault you think you may have to read more.

Good Luck

Thanks, I have read this link before but I didn't realise that there was further information when you click the arrows
Looks like I have got a lot of work to do

[regcheeseman]

Does it run clean once the engine is warm? If so look at glow plugs - it probably isn't the pump.

If it does it all the time then it's retarded, confirm this by pulling the cold start leer which should improve starting and reduce smoke.

You can wind as much advance in that the standard slots will allow and not do any damage, if the engine starts to clatter excessively you have gone too far.

I build a lot of tuned and hybrid pumps for non standard motors, I have a DTI but tend to time by ear - often going back to the DTI to take a baseline measurement.

Mark the current position up and move it, you will not cause any damage. If the problem persists, set it back. The dynamic advance may be seized or internal pump pressure is far too low

[williamraff]

Does it run clean once the engine is warm? If so look at glow plugs - it probably isn't the pump.

If it does it all the time then it's retarded, confirm this by pulling the cold start leer which should improve starting and reduce smoke.

You can wind as much advance in that the standard slots will allow and not do any damage, if the engine starts to clatter excessively you have gone too far.

I build a lot of tuned and hybrid pumps for non standard motors, I have a DTI but tend to time by ear - often going back to the DTI to take a baseline measurement.

Mark the current position up and move it, you will not cause any damage. If the problem persists, set it back. The dynamic advance may be seized or internal pump pressure is far too low

Hi and many thanks for your input, it does clear as the engine warms up but not entirely.The glow plugs appear new and I am assuming that they are ok, I disconnected the first two easy ones from the bus bar and put a test screwdriver on them and it lit up with the ignition on and went out after 12 seconds ( I believe this is the correct way to test them).
I always pull the cold start lever out to start it as it just splutters without it, it ticks over without it after a few minutes.
Simon from Brickwerks commented that the pump did not look right but I am not sure what the right one should look like?
I didn't get chance test drive before the end of the auction so I don't know if it has ever run right, seller was selling for a friend of a friend so no information on vehicles past history.
At present top speed is about 15mph accompanied by clouds of white smoke Would altering the pump timing slightly really make that much difference?

Any advice gratefully received.

Will.

[kit]

Pictures may be required?

[regcheeseman]

Would altering the pump timing slightly really make that much difference?

It would indeed. Sounds like it's retarded too much. It wouldn't take long to try a touch more advance, you can always set it back.

I woudn't rule out the plugs, especially the ones you cant get to easily - sods law says it'll be one of them at fault.

I'm not sure about the diagnosis on a pump by looking at it, if that was possible, my work would be much easier - however if it's pumping it should be right internally. The main issues that affect pumps are gumming/contamination and those faults typically result in no pumping at all or a complete inability to rev.
Other faults would be externally visible - leaks of diesel or air in lines.

Your fault sound like a set up issue

[Hacksawbob]

leaks of diesel or air in lines

if you have the transparent fuel lines. Its worth changing to these brickwerks sell them, and you can put a bulb pump in there too so you can bleed the lines after the fuel filter change. (put key in first position so open up the fuel cut off solenoid before you do this)

[regcheeseman]

I don't like primer bulbs, it's just another connection that could fail - pulling air is the no1 fault on diesel engines.

If I have to prime a dry pump, I'll do it from an elevated bottle and a single line - this eliminates any fuel supply issues when setting a pump up.

There should be no need for a primer bulb , A wet pump should prime in ten seconds on the key, and prime the lines within another 20 - if it doesn't there are problems.

On a filter change, I pre-fill the filter, there should be no reason to prime the pump, it should just start and run a bit lumpy whilst a bit of air is pushed out.

Transparent lines are a god send - 80 a metre from my local motor factors.

[williamraff]

Thanks for the input guys, a bit late on the primer bulb though as I have already fitted one, I thought it would be a good way of making sure that there was always fuel at the pump.

I have not fitted clear fuel lines yet but I will order some as the ones currently fitted seem to have gone hard. I agree on the glow plugs, I think I will just order some for what they cost, at least I will have some spares if that is not the cause.

I have got a couple of videos of the engine running, I will try and upload them tomorrow.

Regards, Will.

[kit]

I have a non return valve and an inline filter fitted, the transparent inline filter is great for checking air leaks.

[rich broom]

with all this potential messing aroung, why not visit your local deisel specialist and ask for a bit of on site advice. they arn't genrally that expensive for an hours abour to check pump timing etc.
you prob have worn out injectors aswell.

[kit]

£60 per hour Ok if you can afford it?

[footstuck]

Timing up an engine is simple, but will take you a morning the first time you check one, as the head scratching that goes with any new process will delay you from the task.
If your going to advance it up without having re-set it and tried it first, your just messing with it, and you will not be confident in your solution even if its correct!
I would suggest that you buy the timing tools and set it up as standard, this is well worth the investment, as once you've concurred this task you are only one step away from being able to change the cam belt.

if you cant afford the tools or be arsed then;
Mark the current Pump position
Slacken off the 4 mount bolts(three on the front of the pump and one at the rear which is under the injector pipes)
slacken off the injector pipes both ends
to advance, turn the pump against its rotation(or as previously posted towards the Cyl Head)
NOTE Too much advancement of pump timing will result in the characteristic and acceptable 'Diesel Knock'
becoming a Loud cracking.
This noise is the fuel igniting before the piston has passed TDC and started its downward stroke.
This is an extreme shock wave much like a 'Head on Crash' which if unchecked will destroy your engine.
So . . . A Little At A Time Is most definitely the order of the day.

Good luck

[williamraff]

Some good suggestions there but logic tells me to spend the £60.00 on a timing kit, that way I will learn how to time the engine,I will be able to eliminate that from my enquiries and I will be able to change the timing belt if the engine turns out to be worth it.

With the engine correctly timed, a compression test carried out, new glow plugs, new fuel filter, lines and clamps fitted I will have done all that is within my capability, if the engine continues to run poorly I will then have to seek professional avice.

I have considered sourcing a known good engine but I am reluctant to do this until I have exhausted every avenue on this one, if I can just get the van to drive reasonably well without clouds of smoke obscuring the rear view I will be happy: I can then get on with preparing the van for the MOT.

Long days and late nights at work and the lack of a garage have currently curtailed my efforts on the van but I will persevere and I will post details of progress if only to aid someone else in a similar position in the future.

Thanks again for the tips, Will.