Shock and Horror......SMOKE !

[peteabbott]

What do you think of this ? I was approaching a roundabout when the lights changed halfway round (sure these lights weren,t there last time) anyway I hit the brakes quite sharply and the lights went to green THEN the engine made a scary rattle and the road behind me was just a cloud of white smoke, the noise only lasted a couple of seconds but I was two inches taller sitting in the seat ! I gingerly carried on and pulled into a layby but now there was no smoke or noise. Sat for a while and checked the oil (no warning led,s at all) oil was O K. Restarted and carried on with nothing obvious and all seems well. The only explanation I have is that the oil all shot to one end when I braked sharply and MAYBE ? shot some up the crankcase vent into the breather. Perhaps that is where the infamous windage sump plate comes in. (The one that a lot of us when we fitted the 1Y did not fit ? ) So any suggestions ?
By the way, my appologies to the family in the blue/white poptop who happened to be following me...........was that you ?

[weldore]

have a look in the air filter box mate,it could have been a build up of oil in there or even water got in there somehow...you still havnt fitted that crank breather have you

[peteabbott]

Very true Dave. I have actually got all the bits for the breather but as to date I haven,t had any problems they are still in the shed ! Just had the air filter box off and it is all very dry. I just do not understand it because to smoke like she did she must have got oil in her top end and the rocker cover breather vents into the inlet manifold after the filter. What I think happened is that when I jammed the anchors on all the oil in the sump shot forward and then up the oil drain ways back up into the rocker box, out through the rocker box breather and into the engine. Let that be a lesson to ya, go and get them bits and fit the blooooooody crankcase breather. (that bloomin windage plate would have stopped it happening). With the single rocker breather considering it is / was a Caddy engine and fitted transversely this would not happened so thats why it only has a rocker breather perhaps.

[Oldiebut goodie]

Surely it would have been blue smoke if it had been oil? Sounds more like it overfuelled with the white smoke and rattle.
You've got me worrying now as I am getting a 1Y ready!

[peteabbott]

Its OK Oldie ! I took off the airbox and as I said it was dry and clean then I went one step further and took off the inlet manifold and it was very very oily. Cleaned and degreased it and put it back together. Then took her for a run (Good old Felixstowe and back) no more problems at all. As Dave (Weldore) pointed out when I did my transplant my engine was out of a Caddy and did not have a crankcase breather just a rockerbox breather and I thought, well that is at it is so thats how I ran her. I went on quite a long trip just after the transplant and total horror when I stopped as she had spit all her oil over the tailgate. She had actually spit her dipstick out with the crankcase pressure. I increased the size of the rocker breather and no more more problems although I did get hold of the crankcase breather but up to now, two years later have not found a reason to fit it. When I and others did the 1Y transplant there was a lot of discussion whether or not to fit the sump windage tray (think Weldore did) but because it was thicker I could not get the bottom bell housing bolts in so like many others I left it out. Would that have stopped my problem ? Who knows. I take your point about the overfuelling but braking as hard as I did must have been oil surge (not brave enough to try out my theory) and yes you are right, wife says it was blue and not white smoke. Bless her heart and the wifes for that matter ! All is well.....now where did I put that crank case breather.

[weldore]

I tried to fit the widage but struggled with the bolts fron g/b to sump,so i fitted a standard sump gasket.

[Oldiebut goodie]

The 1Y that I am working on now for my van has a crankcase breather - that was out of a Caddy also. Was yours blanked off or had it just been removed?
I wonder if it it is possible to build in a set of baffles with lips at the top into the the 1.6 sump to curtail the effects of that sudden surge? I'll scratch my head and think when I do the changeover.

[weldore]

You could probably keep the windage tray and dont bother with the lower 2 bolts i suppose as with it having a thick rubber gasket its not a solid join anyway.the golf/caddy didnt need it

[peteabbott]

Yes mine was just blanked off (still is ! ) Be good to see what you come up with then. @ Dave ....how much do you want for your windage plate ? ONLY JOKING !
Going to call into the V W dealers and ask about the crankcase vent just to see what they say, might even get some info on exactly what engine I have and why the blank and might even get to know what year it is as the engine number is totally unreadable. Watch this space and finally Oldibutgoodie have you got a real name like Tom or Fred or Mable

[colinthefox]

I might be able to help with the windage tray debate. I recently fitted the windage tray to my AEF engine, because previously I was getting the odd chirp out of the Buzzer of Doom on sharp braking on a motorway slip road, and I thought it might help. I just filed the bolt holes in the bellhousing by a couple of mm and it fitted easily.

This cured the BOD on slowing down after a long motorway run, but now I get a similar chirp from the BOD after storming up 2nd gear hills, which I didn't get before. So it's not all good news fitting the windage tray I'm afraid.

Next time I do an oil change I'll have a closer look at the tray, but I think when the oil is frothing due to high revs, the tray is slowing down the oil returning to the sump, plus what oil is down in the sump is running to the back on hills. I'll see if there might be a modification which would help.

I suppose I really ought to drive more gently!

[weldore]

i wonder if the tray was designed for a transverse mounted engine and with ours being Longitudinal it doesnt do the job it was meant to do properly

[Oldiebut goodie]

It's CASSANDRA.

I have just taken the breather off mine - the plastic has totally disintegrated at the block, which explains the oil leak in that area. I will have to make a metal one up - that is the second plastic boss on this engine that has failed - the coolant hose one on the side of the head had started to disintegrate also. The engine had been running on pure water due to the constant topping up by the look of it. I wonder what other perils await me - I was hoping to not have to remove the head but will now to see what damage there could be to the waterways. It may well have been a running engine but some people's idea of maintenance beggars belief. It was from a 1998 Caddy.

Colin - did you fit a new oil pump when you did yours? (Just wondering if it is a case of an old pump not being able to keep the pressure up on a relatively tighter engine)

Weldore - Just looked at the tray that I took out - there is a pair of enormous elongated holes at the now front and rear, I would have thought that these cause the possible problem of the oil surging. Maybe all that is needed is for these to be blanked off leaving just a small drainage hole the same size as the others (maybe even enlarging them all to give quicker drainage?). I will weld them up and then decide at transplant time whether or not to use the tray. It's a pity our sumps aren't steel then putting baffles in would be easy!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
..

.
.
(It's Rick, actually )

[weldore]

hey up Rick

well mine has just the standard gasket on and as far as i know its been fine since 2009....i must add though that i only have the pressure switch on the back of the head and i dont have a buzzer.the oil light goes out after start up after a second or two on idle(no initial rev) and in cold weather it goes out after a short rev from start up..so far
i never see any smoke in the drivers mirror on acceleration..but i always chicken out around 3.5 to 4 rpm and change up.
elongating the gearbox holes is proberbly the way forwards to get the windage tray on and as you say Rick make some modification to the tray so it acts correctly for our setup.

sorry pete i threw it out about 4 years ago

oh, i kept the 1y pump with the cs strainer (i think..it was 4 years ago )

[colinthefox]

Rick.........I can't remember which oil pump I used, but I did check it for spec before I fitted it. I only get the odd chirp from the buzzer of doom. The sequence is.......a few minutes at high revs (motorway or up hill) then low revs (top of the hill or a slip road) wait a few seconds, then buzzer chirps. It's not a problem, I've just got used to it.

Weldore...........the windage tray apears to be designed to stop the crank dipping into the sump oil on a nearly vertical engine. Obviously not so effective on a 50 degree mounting. Not sure if transverse mounting affects things. Not sure if it needs more or less holes. I'll probably ditch it at next oil change. Ah well, it was worth trying.........and if you don't have a buzzer of doom, it's no real surprise that it doesn't cause you any bother!

[Oldiebut goodie]

Pete,
found an old breather blanking plate so have made a metal spigot for it and cut off the disintegrated plastic from the end of the pipe so that the original 1Y one completes the breather system.

The angle on the pipe is slightly to the rear and slightly away from the block otherwise it will foul other bits on its way up to the upper joint. I just used a piece of scrap 22mm steel pipe - the hardest bit being the drilling of the plate.