Big brake upgrades

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lloydy
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Big brake upgrades

Post by lloydy »

Looking maybe before my next big hols to upgrade the front brakes as i don't really want the brake fade from the solid discs. Not looking at spending loads on some fancy kit, and i don't want to be modding my uprights or anything like that. Basically looking for a bolt on job. I have a 16" so any info as to whether this opens the options up a bit.
So far i can see that the options are
1, Black diamond drilled and grooved discs with up rated pads from b'werks- easiest and probably the cheapest. Any pro's and con's?
2, Sharan vented discs- these need the disc diameter taking down by a few mm and a mm taken off the caliper carrier to take the thicker disc
3, Northwesty sell this kit http://www.kirkmeeks.com/syncro_store" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Waiting to hear back from them, but seems to be a bolt on option and not a bad price considering what's in the kit
4, Futbus, cost a grand and uprights need modifying- so not really interested.

So any thoughts, tips, knowledge on what will/won't fit. Thoughts on vented vs drilled and grooved, also on uprated pads. So come people, vent your knowledge.......
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syncropaddy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by syncropaddy »

Audi 100 calipers modded along with the vented discs seem to be the mod. I have some here for future use and it looks good on a 14". There are also caliper adapter brackets available on German e bay to suit other calipers. There are loads of discs from Mercedes and VW/Audi that will do. Brembo do a good online catalogue with drawings which might help you decide on a suitable disc.
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jes*b
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by jes*b »

This is definitely an option Lloyd , better than what you got, minimal mods and within budget

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.de/viewitem? ... 4272570725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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lloydy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by lloydy »

syncropaddy wrote:Audi 100 calipers modded along with the vented discs seem to be the mod. I have some here for future use and it looks good on a 14". There are also caliper adapter brackets available on German e bay to suit other calipers. There are loads of discs from Mercedes and VW/Audi that will do. Brembo do a good online catalogue with drawings which might help you decide on a suitable disc.
do you have any more info on the audi mod, like what era the calipers are from or part numbers. Or even what has to be done for them to fit
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lloydy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by lloydy »

jes*b wrote:This is definitely an option Lloyd , better than what you got, minimal mods and within budget

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.de/viewitem? ... 4272570725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:lol: looks like they got lost at sea
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syncropaddy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by syncropaddy »

The Audi mod was done by that guy in Canada. The calipers are off the Audi 100 that was just before the A6. I can get the info for you later as I'm away from my computer where it's stored
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by xriss »

syncropaddy wrote:The Audi mod was done by that guy in Canada. The calipers are off the Audi 100 that was just before the A6. I can get the info for you later as I'm away from my computer where it's stored

david marshal form hasssen werks perhaps :?


Installing Audi Brakes on the Vanagon Syncro

Installing Audi brakes on a Syncro is amazingly simple, inexpensive and an amazingly effective brake upgrade for the Vanagon Syncro. I find these brakes superior to the South African big brake kits for a few reasons:

Safety in numbers - off the shelf replacement parts are available almost anywhere in North America!

Recycled Audi 5000S / Audi 100 / Audi 200 (1988 to 1994) parts are cheap and easy to find - this is a good source for the calipers and caliper carriers.

The Audi dual piston calipers can provide more pushing force against the pads than the VW single piston calipers.

Aftermarket performance brake rotors and pads are available from most VW / Audi tuning shops.

WARNING: I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACCURACY OR COMPLETENESS OF THESE INSTRUCTIONS OR WEATHER THIS REALLY WORKS AT ALL. THESE ARE BRAKES AND THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE IT ALL WORKS. DO THIS UPGRADE AT YOUR OWN RISK - YOU ARE YOUR OWN WARRANTY - DON'T COME CRYING TO ME IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG - I AM NOT LIABLE FOR ANYTHING!

These brakes are not a direct bolt on, but with some basic milling work the caliper carriers can be made to fit the Vanagon Syncro hub and everything else is a direct bolt on.

Materials needed:

QTY Part # Description
2 477 615 301 B Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 276x25mm vented brake rotors
2 477 698 151 F Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 brake pads
2 447 615 125 Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 caliper carrier assembly
1 447 615 123 Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 dual piston brake caliper
1 447 615 124 Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 dual piston brake caliper
4 M16 x 80 10.9 strength bolt
4 M16 washer flat washer
4 M16 nylock nut with nylon lock or use blue loc tight
4 M16 8mm spacers 8mm spacers for between the hub assembly and caliper carrier

If you inspect the caliper carrier of a Vanagon Syncro you will see that there are just two M16 bolts that hold it on to the hub assembly. If you inspect the Audi caliper carrier you will see that there are two M12 bolts that hold it in place. For obvious reasons a M16 bolt will not fit in an M12 hole, so the Audi caliper carriers must be taken to a machine shop to be enlarged to 16mm. You will also notice that the mounting hole centers of both calipers are not the same, so using a simple drill press to enlarge the holes will not work. You have to ofset the M16 holes in the Audi caliper so that the edge of the 12mm hole will become part of the edge of the 16mm hole when you are finished - hence a milling machine is needed. The bottom section of the Audi caliper carrier that goes next to the Syncro hub will also need just a slight bit of material removed from it as it will just rub on the Syncro hub assembly causing things not to line up correctly. While you are at the machine shop get them to make four 8mm spacers with a M16 hole down the center of them to provide the correct spacing. For my brakes, I used the correct combination of washers, if I had more time, I would have had the spacers machined up.


Audi Caliper Carrier mounted on a Vanagon Syncro Hub

Once the disc and caliper carrier is installed you can install the caliper. This is about as simple as just bolting it in place. Hint: you have to put the disc into the caliper carrier and slide it on the hub as a unit as there is not enough space to put the bolts in afterwards. The Vanagon brake lines can be reused with the calipers. You have to remove the metal brake line and the brake line supporting bracket from the Syncro caliper and transfer it over to the Audi caliper - some reshaping of the metal line will be necessary to accomplish this.

Once the calipers and brake lines are in place, bleeding the system is necessary and then you're set! Well, almost, you'll need 15" or larger wheels to fit over the larger brakes. There are some wheels on the market that don't fit the South African brakes, I have not tested these wheels with the Audi brakes so do your wheel shopping carefully. I test fitted the 15" and 16" wheels that I sell at http://www.fastforward.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and they all fit perfectly!

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Audi 5000S / 100 / 200 brakes mounted on a Vanagon Syncro

We have installed these brakes on our TriStar Syncro. After 10.000km all is well and I am still very impressed with the braking!

I am investigating fitting Audi A8 322x25mm rotors on our heavier Westfalia Syncro - stay tuned!

Follow up: Due to criticism from a mailing list member, I got this brake setup inspected by a provincial government inspector. He liked that they saw and he said he would have no problems officially passing these brakes in an official inspection. He suggest for ultimate strength, that he would like to see one solid piece used as the spacers, not washers or individual stand offs. Again, do this upgrade as your own risk!

If you have any questions or comments or would like to contribute to the information found at http://www.syncro.ca" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, please contact me at info@syncro.ca

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BAYVELLE
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by BAYVELLE »

I have done the Audi front brake upgrade on my 2wd Westy and it works really well. Can send a pic of what it looks like if you want? Obviously not on a Syncro but will give you an idea how it will look.
My calipers / carriers came from an Audi S2.

Also have another pair of calipers and carriers if your interested?

The carriers are the harder part to find.
Last edited by BAYVELLE on 08 Sep 2012, 07:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Dai
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by Dai »

A front brake upgrade is one of the next things I'm hoping to do to my van,I was intending to use the Sharan setup which I know will fit inside my Mach 5 wheels , but I'll watch this post with interest as it's always best to weigh up the options
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lloydy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by lloydy »

The Sharan set up looks a good one and is used now, so we know that works, and I think if used with uprated pads will be very good. The only negative for me is having to reduce the diameter of the disc and shave the calipers slightly. I'm not very knowledgable in this area so I'm sure this is not a issue to do.
Audi set up seems to be a good one, but for some (maybe nonsense) reason I really don't want to be redrilling calipers and spacing them off.
The black diamond set up seems to be the easiest at the moment, but does anyone have any opinions on drilled and grooved vs vented? Maybe the b'diamond with reconned calipers (mine look original and could well be dragging a bit) would be ideal?
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lloydy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by lloydy »

The black diamond set up with uprated pads and reconned calipers will come in at a bit over £300,
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by KarlT »

jes*b wrote:This is definitely an option Lloyd , better than what you got, minimal mods and within budget

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.de/viewitem? ... 4272570725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bargain, must be worth more than 60p in scrap! :idea

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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by KarlT »

syncropaddy wrote:Audi 100 calipers modded along with the vented discs seem to be the mod. I have some here for future use and it looks good on a 14". There are also caliper adapter brackets available on German e bay to suit other calipers. There are loads of discs from Mercedes and VW/Audi that will do. Brembo do a good online catalogue with drawings which might help you decide on a suitable disc.


Hmmmmm, interesting, father-in-laws low-mileage Audi 100 (C3) has just failed MOT (uses water & CAT buggered) last week & he wants it scrapped.
:idea :P :| :shock: :run :lol:

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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by BAYVELLE »

KarlT wrote:
syncropaddy wrote:Audi 100 calipers modded along with the vented discs seem to be the mod. I have some here for future use and it looks good on a 14". There are also caliper adapter brackets available on German e bay to suit other calipers. There are loads of discs from Mercedes and VW/Audi that will do. Brembo do a good online catalogue with drawings which might help you decide on a suitable disc.


Hmmmmm, interesting, father-in-laws low-mileage Audi 100 (C3) has just failed MOT (uses water & CAT buggered) last week & he wants it scrapped.
:idea :P :| :shock: :run :lol:

Fairly sure it needs to be a Turbo engined car though Karl?
It is the Girling 60 twin pot calipers that are needed.

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syncropaddy
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Re: Big brake upgrades

Post by syncropaddy »

lloydy wrote:The only negative for me is having to reduce the diameter of the disc and shave the calipers slightly. I'm not very knowledgable in this area so I'm sure this is not a issue to do.
Audi set up seems to be a good one, but for some (maybe nonsense) reason I really don't want to be redrilling calipers and spacing them off.
The black diamond set up seems to be the easiest at the moment, but does anyone have any opinions on drilled and grooved vs vented?

Reducing the diameter of the disc is a simple lathe job so that isnt an issue really as long as the disc is set up in the chuck properly. Is the offset of the Sharan disc suitable? The Audi vented one is 276x25 as opposed to 288x25 but I dont know if the offset is the same. I have some SA vented ones here as well. Shaving metal off a caliper sounds a little hairier. I dont know exactly what is involved cuz I haven't looked but is it a diameter thing or does it foul the wheel centre? Anyway on a 16" it shouldnt matter. Drilled and grooved discs wear out your pads quicker whereas vented discs keep them cooler. Vented is better for brake fade.

Re-drilling caliper hangers and fitting spacers is not ideal but it works. The ideal caliper will fit directly to the Syncro upright using the OE bolts and have the right offset for bolting on with no spacers. I looked at about a dozen different Mercedes/VW units but nothing fitted directly with the offset I wanted.

Dai wrote:A front brake upgrade is one of the next things I'm hoping to do to my van,I was intending to use the Sharan setup which I know will fit inside my Mach 5 wheels , but I'll watch this post with interest as it's always best to weigh up the options

The Audi setup I have fits inside an ET25 7x15 steel wheel with no issues but the SA kit I bought didnt :!: I had to grind a little off so it wouldn't rub the wheel centre.
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