JX Cold start issues

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MissUse
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JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

Hello :)

I've been lurking a while now, especially the last few days as The Baron is playing up and we are at a loss at this point as to what's wrong. He has a JX 1.6TD engine.

He was getting increasingly smokey the last year and then wouldn't start two weeks ago. We'd suspected the pump for a while so replaced that. Then he would start eventually after much turning over and eventually firing. He will start reasonably well when warm (after a few turns of the starter motor) and runs really well (better than ever) when he's going. It's that initial cold start that's killing the battery.

In an attempt to fix it we've now changed three out of four injectors (not the forth as this will require moving the pump and then redoing the timing), new braided pipes between pump and injectors and a new fuel filter (screw in jobby). There is no visable leaking and we are reasonable certain the timing is good - two mechanics did it together and both are happy it's not that.

But he's still no better.

I can see air pulling in from the filter when revved, so as Kit suggests, a non-return valve will be the next move. But on switch off, there doesn't seem to be much sucking back. Although this might occur in small amounts when he's sitting and we aren't looking :roll: Should air get in? Any air? I thought the filter already had a non return valve inside??

The mechanic next door has fiddled with the screw and bolt/nut on top of the filter housing (sorry, I have no idea what this is) and is surprised that no fuel seeps out even when fully open. Is this normal?

Any ideas at this point would be very gratefully explored!

Em

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Oldiebut goodie
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Did no one suggest checking/replacing the glow plugs before doing things like replacing injectors and pumps? Pretty poor mechanics IMO.
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ewenmaclean
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by ewenmaclean »

Hello,

^^ WHS, but just to answer your question - air can get in to the system both from air draining back to the tank from the pump. There are seals within the pump - each of these can let in air over time without necessarily leaking diesel, and the clips where fuel pipes meet are worth checking as well as the copper washers - these can let in air too. Do you mean the mechanic took the thermostatic T-piece off the top of the filter (which some filters have but not all) - the o-ring on this is a likely candidate for air ingress too. Also the leak-off pipes between the injectors but it sounds like you've checked these. A non-return valve is an excellent idea - I have one and a lift pump.

Are you using the cold-start advance at all?

Hope you get it sorted

Ewen

MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

Hi,

Thanks for the replies :) The glowplugs were done not too long ago (I'd have to check when with the other half - one of the mechanics :lol: - but he's abroad at the mo). If it is glow plugs that are an issue, would it ever start? Just wondering?

I believe there is no thermostatic T- piece (one of these? http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/shop?page=s ... ct_id=1237) on either the filter that came off or the new one that went on, so I guess it's not one of them then.

I use the cold start handle when starting, but it is taking so long to catch/start that I have no idea if it helps at all. I suppose it must help. I've managed to get a non return valve but only a 6mm connector - I suspect an 8mm is needed...

I'll pass on the info here and see what he thinks, minus the poor mechanic bit :lol:

Tar Muchly

MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

Right, Kit will be pleased to know the non return valve is on and no more bubbles :ok The 6mm was bang on btw but you probably all already know this :roll:

The test will be cold start in the morning. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

You shouldn't be needing the cold start lever in these temperatures - I have never needed to use mine well down into the minuses. Have the glow plugs actually been checked as working? (by the 'poor' mechanic :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ) Glow plug relay functioning also.
I lost my glow plugs in the middle of summer and the van took half an hour to start without them.
Glow plug current draw - if your mechanic has a clamp on ammeter:

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MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

Do they need removing to check?

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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

Not if the mechanic has a clamp on ammeter.
Or if he has sensitive fingers he could switch the glow plugs on but not start the engine feel if there is any warmth on them.
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ewenmaclean
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by ewenmaclean »

Hello,

just to add - you can also check operation with a multimeter - check there's 12v going to them by looking at the voltage between the bus bar and earth with ignition on, and with the ignition off you can check the resistance between the tip of the glow plug and earth and it should be between around 0.1 and 5 Ohms - generally when they go bad they give infinite resistance. It sounds as if you really do need to check the relay and glow plug system is ok - first step is to check for 12v at the tip when the glow plug light is on. If you disconnect the temperature sensor the glow plug relay will cycle for maximum duration - you could do this and see if it helps a bit which might help narrow things down.

Good luck with it

Ewen

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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by Oldiebut goodie »

You can't check the resistance of individual glow plugs whilst the busbar is connected. Also you cannot check the voltage at the tip of the glowplug - you could take it out and check for heat at the tip but not voltage - the tip should be at 0v! Pointless attempting to read voltages and resistances with the glow plugs interconnected.
E D I T:
You could wire up each glow plug individually and check that you get a voltage drop of around 2v when the glow plug is switched on. Easier to use a clamp on meter though.
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by ewenmaclean »

I wasn't suggesting checking the voltage at the tip of course that should be at 0v - forgot about the interconnectedness of the bus bar - of course it has to be disconnected to measure individually (I don't have a busbar so I forgot to mention this sorry)....

MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

:? I'm sure this will all mean loads to him. I however am lost. :lol:

I shall give him all this lovely info tomorrow and let you know how it all goes. Thank you all so much :)

MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

Sadly, this morning's cold start and no difference.

It'll be the whole glow plug malarky next then :(

Don't worry, the injectors and pump needed doing. So I'm not too stressed that this was wasted money. It's just a ruddy shame the other half didn't check/change the glowies etc when the pump was off.

MissUse
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Re: JX Cold start issues

Post by MissUse »

So, guess what? A new set of glowies (on test - if only someone had done this a ruddy week ago - two at least were not working) and he fires up immediately. I can't believe neither of them had tested them :oops: Oh well at least that long list of stuff the OH hadn't got round to is now done :roll:

Just a quick query. There is a rubbing type noise, towards the pump/timing belt which we can't place and I'm fairly sure wasn't there before all this work started. It sounds about the speed the belts are running at and doesn't appear to get quicker under load. The OH thinks it might be the pump whirring as it works. Does this sound right. Not that I don't trust his judgement anymore :wink:

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