a Specialist kind of nightmare

[Tony Tone]

Ok, please bear with me on reading this as I'd really welcome forum members opinions and input.

Ok so, My van 19.dg goes to specialist to have new ( good 2nd hand) engine fitted as it was very very tired and sounded bad. My original engine has run ok and ticked over with no problems at all for 2 years (this bits important).

Nearly three weeks later I'm told the van is MOT'd (as requested) but the new engine will run but not tick over, it just stalls. They stated they have tried 2 carbs, 2 distributors, 2 ignition modules, 2 coils, checked all of the earths but it will still not tick over.

Today they inserted a perfectly running but different 1.9dg engine, and the same inability to tick over problem appeared.

I then get a call to state ' we have given up with it' and that the problem is on the wiring on my van, that I need an auto electrician ( which they are not) and basically it's pay the bill and collect it time. I should point out again that it was fine and had been fine 2 years prior to their intervention.

I'm trying to stay calm and reasonable. I welcome your opinions and suggestions even as to maybe why it won't tick over as I'll happily get it back if I can fix it myself.

Thoughts, opinions and suggestions please, I'm sooo pi$$ed off.

[sarran1955]

Hello,

Hmmmm.......

So it ran ok before....

Did it usually start first time.

Have you seen the new engine running...

Maybe the new one has the timing set differently, eg out of a non Hall effect ign set up into a Hall effect setup, so the timing would be out, maybe it would run but not tickover.

Needs to be set up correctly

Here is a video before and after on a 2litre CU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qayyc9Z4E0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can you video your engine,

Do you have access to diagnostic equipment, (like mine in the video).

I know it is delicate, but should a VW 'specialist' not be able to set up a 30yr old motor...

Its not rocket science.

I'll help by internet, cos as you can see I'm a bit of a way from you

Cordialement,

[Tony Tone]

Hi, in answer to your questions...

It ran ok before but took some time to start it from cold but once up to temp it ran just fine, apart from the clonking and bashing about of dead bearings !!!. I've not heard the new engine running at all, just been told that it runs great but doesn't tick over, hows that running great !!!!!???.

I don't have access to any specialist equipment and am happy to pay someone to set it up if that's all that's needed. The people that have it are dumbfounded by it.

I don't wish to spend over 1k having an engine fitted to have it returned to me not running !!!!, not exactly doing the job as tasked is it !!

[BOXY]

If they've tried swapping all the major ignition parts I can't see how it can be-

that the problem is on the wiring on my van,

. Have they checked for places air could be drawn in, weakening the mixure so much it won't idle? It would have to be somewhere not swapped out with an engine and the only place I can think of would be the servo hose? The only other possibility I can think of would be a fuel hose collapsing under low fuel pressure or a problem with the pump if its an electric one and not engine driven?

[ermie571]

right, can you go see it?

listen to it running....if not idling.....

how does it sound?

how does the install look?

where are all your original bits?

take some photos....is it all wired in correctly?

Will it idle when warm....?

get it compression tested and keep hold of the results.


i wouldn't be paying in full just yet....

Em
xx

[Tony Tone]

Have they checked for places air could be drawn in - I don't believe so. I had the same problem on amotorcycle engime once, all down to air leaks.

servo hose? - where is this connected and is it connected up at the front end too ?. They did a top and lower ball joint on the front suspension and both rear cv joints and bearings, so may have dislodged something ?.

[Tony Tone]

But wouldn't you agree that it should be given back working fully ?. It idled when I handed it over to them and now will not idle, and that appears to be my problem. Is it ?

[Ian Hulley]

Have they messed with the wiring to the carb ? If warm is the switch for the carb heater connected to the fuel shut-off solenoid ... starving it of fuel ?

Ian.

[Tony Tone]

Hi, how would I differentiate between the wires ?. As far as I'm aware they put the new engine in and it just wouldn't idle at all . I am guessing that they just rejoined the wires as they were when my engine was in situ and working ok.

I'm guessing my best bet is to pay them for what they have done, get it back, fix it myself and then make sure people stay well clear of them in the future.

[Ian Hulley]

You don't say where you are BUT the best thing would be for someone with a 1.9 carb engine to pop across and compare the wiring side by side ... to me the only reason it would run when cold then switch off when warm is as I described before ... carb heater wiring mistakenly put onto the fuel cut-off solenoid.

Ian.

[ermie571]

But wouldn't you agree that it should be given back working fully ?. It idled when I handed it over to them and now will not idle, and that appears to be my problem. Is it ?

I didn't say take it away

What I meant is to try and keep relations sweet, so that you can do checks, post up on here, and see if you get some pointers.

of course you want it back running! A non running van is not much good to you...so if they want rid, then you pay for the engine only.....which is why I suggested a compression test...will tell you if the engine is healthy.....and I would want to be there when compression was checked.

Em
xx

[morzov]

I think you have two immediate issues here. One - where do you want the van to be and two the issue of payment.

1.If it were me I would want the van out of there if it was driveable and you are nearby because that greatly increases your options. There doesn't seem any point in leaving it there if they have lost interest and given up on it unless it was something simple.

2.The second part is tricky because they will no doubt want payment to release it and that appears to cover at least two engine installations? If you can remove it I'd be inclined to tell them that is your intention and ask them how much they intend to charge you. Depending what that is you can either decide to pay it and do nothing, or if it is excessive pay it under protest and try to get your money back later which you ought to have a reasonable chance of doing if the job they undertook was to give you back a van with a fully functioning engine.

Hope that helps

[Sunray]

Do remember that a new engine does not include a new carb?

Have you checked that the carb is OK because if its as worn out as the motor was, quite possibly causing the issues. That has the idle mixture screw on it. Its quite a basic engine, so not really that difficult to diagnose. Surely the garage can tell you what the problem is?

My new engine only just ticked over erratically, but the guy who fitted it immediately pointed to the carb. So I got a Weber, about 300 quid, which a lot on here don't like but I am more than happy with it, it did need to be taken to the rolling road to be properly adjusted, static adjustment didn't really cut the mustard.

Alternatively get the existing carb recondition, I did just in case the Weber was as rubbish as everyone on here said they were. All the carb re-conditioners were either refusing work or quoting a minimum of 8 weeks and I wanted to use the van right away, so spent the extra.

The pierburg I got back some 8 weeks later was a world away from the one I sent in. 175 quid. Gower and Lee.

[Tony Tone]

As far as I am aware, it has had two different carbs fitted and has had a complete engine and carb fitted from a van that is running well. All variations failed to tick over at all which would suggest something else such as an air leak or wonky wiring. As the van ran ok prior to them changing the engine my assumption is it may be something theyve accidentally done. Long and short of it is that the problem arose whilst they had the van and were working on it so surely cannot be the vans wiring as suggested.

Im also liking the collapsed fuel line and carb heater wiring suggestions too. Im in Birmingham but where the van is they have others to compare the wiring to.

My hope is ( i dont know) that maybe theyve read some of the suggestions on here and are giving them a go.

[Sunray]

If they have done all that, are you sure its not your van?

Just because it worked before on your old one does not mean it will work on a new one, things were all slack and sloppy and it didn't mind inputs being set poorly. This is all new and expecting all the inputs to be in tolerance and if they aren't it may well stop working. Changing an engine as I found out, often isn't a matter of just getting someone to fit it and expecting it to run perfect. 20+ year old vehicles are 20+ years old and you disturb them that much and you find out all the flaws. You may well get lucky but I had all sorts of little issues, its bedded in now and runs as sweet as you like but it took a while.

Perhaps take them up on their suggestion. They usually know someone to call that is 1/2 decent.