Re: Edited = Propex compact 1600 and motor repair

[ghost123uk]

for how much they cost there is surprisingly not much in the box..so very simple to fault find

Yup and they come to bits "quite" easily - once you get all the silicone sealer unstuck

Then you find the fault = the blower motor is almost seized solid (I had guessed it was that) and can you get at the bearings to lube them = NO

So, further stripping (in fact total strip) to get the motor out (fans are held on with tiny allen screws by the way, for future "searchers)" Then remove motor cover bolts (x2) then pull off cover = oh dear it's the brushes end that is tight.

Tap armature out of casing = easy.

Looks at brushes = NO WAY is it going to be possible to retract the brushes and hold them retracted whilst getting the armature back in Anyway the bearing at that end is foobard

Then, on a bank holiday Sunday (can't ring Propex) I saw a post on a caravan forum saying the motors (for a Compact 1600) are no longer available = EEEK - But then I saw a recent post on here by syncroandy that says he got quoted for one, fingers crossed then for phone call on Tuesday to propex !!!!!!

Me being a cheap skate again, I should have just paid the ~£280 for a good used one off Ebay

[weldore]

might be a different motor to my old one then as i must have stripped it down totaly to get to stick the mags back on...but you should be able to get the bearings matched up at a bearing suppliers.might be worth the effort

sometimes your first impression on a job is a bit closed minded but when you go back to it you find a solution

[ghost123uk]

might be a different motor to my old one then as i must have stripped it down totaly to get to stick the mags back on...but you should be able to get the bearings matched up at a bearing suppliers.might be worth the effort

Aye, but these "bearings" are a kinda plastic golf ball with hole for shaft, running in 2 x kinda springy metal "star" shaped bits that are buried in the end plates (along with a felt type seal)

I might stick a pic up, if I can get my camera to focus that close

sometimes your first impression on a job is a bit closed minded but when you go back to it you find a solution

You are totally right, many times before (esp in my field of electronics) that philosophy has proved a salvation

[weldore]

Aye, but these "bearings" are a kinda plastic golf ball with hole for shaft, running in 2 x kinda springy metal "star" shaped bits that are buried in the end plates (along with a felt type seal)

oh i remember now ..yes thats right

theres nothing you can do to free them off ?
wd40 soak ?

its a while ago since i sorted mine out so struggling to remember the inner workings

[ghost123uk]

Aye, but these "bearings" are a kinda plastic golf ball with hole for shaft, running in 2 x kinda springy metal "star" shaped bits that are buried in the end plates (along with a felt type seal)

oh i remember now ..yes thats right

theres nothing you can do to free them off ?
wd40 soak ?

its a while ago since i sorted mine out so struggling to remember the inner workings

Aye,freeing it should have been little trouble, BUT trouble is twofold...

1 = I can see no way to keep the brushes retracted whilst inserting the armature back into what is basically a big blind hole (blind because the stators fill the entire space inside the bearing end of the housing - a pic would help I know !)

2 = If I move the brushes temporarily to one side, the "golf ball" thing on the shaft will not clip back into the star shaped bits, I tapped it, pushed it, etc but all it was doing was to distort the internal "star" shaped fingers

I wish to hell now I had tried to free it off before I pulled the armature out of the "brushes end" housing. The only reason I did so was that I did not want to get lube, WD40 whatever, on the brushes and commutator. See, being too conscientious does not always pay

[weldore]

i think you will crack this...i must have removed the armature and somehow got the brushes back into place..you will do it ,im sure

i remember when i did mine the first day i thought..god it needs a new motor but went back after being a bit fed up with myself and sorted it , and at the time i too thought it was the bearings but when the magnets were glued back in it turned as it should.

good luck and theres nowt better than that feeling of repairing something

[ghost123uk]

i think you will crack this...i must have removed the armature and somehow got the brushes back into place..you will do it ,im sure

i remember when i did mine the first day i thought..god it needs a new motor but went back after being a bit fed up with myself and sorted it , and at the time i too thought it was the bearings but when the magnets were glued back in it turned as it should.

good luck and theres nowt better than that feeling of repairing something

Well once again you are so right

Had another look.

Managed to remove magnets (a bit stuck, but remembered NOT to bang / tap magnets !) mine are firmly attached to a cylindrical sleeve.

Looked at the "star" thing. It just retains the "golf ball" thing and allows slight "eyeball type" movement (ie = self aligning) It was shot, bent damaged u/s ! Ragged it out with long nosed pliers etc.

Looked at the problem for a while, had a fag or 2.

Ah Ha I thought I have an idea.

Now, I am anal about keeping EVERY spare nut, bolt, spring, connector, washer etc in lots of little, carefully marked component drawers. It paid off I remembered seeing some rubber washers, very like "tap washers".

Put the "golf ball" thing in it's seating, managed (with the help of a bit of lube) to insert the washers, one after the other, over the "golf ball thing" BUT under the lip that originally held the "star shaped thing" (bearing retainer) = IT WORKED = the "golf ball thing" is captive, but can move "eyeball like" a little.

Managed to get the brushes held back whilst I fitted the armature = VERY fiddly !!!!

Re-Fitted the magnets in their sleeve, trial fitted the other end cap, removed to adjust end float with a washer, re-fitted, bolted together, tested = IT WORKS and seems quite quiet and draws about 1 amp, so that is about right

Now just got to put it all back together, complete with the sound deadening silicone everywhere and we should be in business (providing the rest of it works )

[weldore]

i bet you felt the same as me..THIS AINT GONNA BEAT ME !!!


first hurdle delt with

[ghost123uk]

please skip to next post (html error !)

[ghost123uk]

weldore wrote
I bet you felt the same as me..THIS AINT GONNA BEAT ME !!!

Well I think it has now beaten me !

weldore wrote:
first hurdle dealt with

Umm, second hurdle =

OK so got it all back together and it worked, it fired up and gave out nice warm air (on the bench).

I turned it off after 10 minutes and went in for a celebratory cuppa and a fag.

I then went back into the shed and fired it up again, this time I decided to test the low voltage cut off, so slowly reduced the voltage (I was powering it from an adjustable power supply). It did NOT cut off I got down to 9 volts and gave up. Then when I tried again the main gas solenoid has stopped working This is activated by a circuit in the "black box" (not the stat control, see pic below) earthing the output of the solenoid, or in this case NOT earthing it !

So, what with the low volt cut off AND the gas solenoid not working it looks like the controller is up the spout too

Unless anyone has got a spare kicking around I am about to give up

Pic of the part I need (it's the black box with the "low voltage" and "burner lit" led's on it).


[/quote]

[ghost123uk]

ghost123uk wrote

Pic of the part I need (it's the black box with the "low voltage" and "burner lit" led's on it).

Just to confirm what I have read elsewhere on here = Propex are very helpful

They say they will send the controller (as per pic) for £60 (new) and if it does not cure my unit they will accept it back and refund (most) of the cost. They also say if it does not fix it they can take the whole thing and repair and service it for about a third of the cost of a new one.

Nice to find a company that offers good service

[ghost123uk]

This thing is really starting to get on my goat

Part arrived (£70 ) this morning = next day.

Fitted = It works = for 10 mins or more = workshop nice and warm

Turn it off,go in for a brew and a fag, the missus is pleased (I have spent the lasdt 2 days in the shed playing with this !!)

Go out and try it again just to be sure - now it runs for 30 seconds and the "burner lit" LED flickers and it dies

Suspect the actual flame sensor, but without a spare, only a guess.
Funny though that it ran fine for 10 mins earlier this morning

btw, all pipes clear of obstructions, voltage correct (bench power supply) and gas supply ok.

Running it without all the silicone case sealer though, wonder if minor air leaks are causing poor flame performance, but it worked earlier today like that.

Emailed Propex Tech, have to see what they say.

£170 and counting...

[weldore]

i think theres a sensor that detects burnt gasses in the hot air chamber..if its gathering internally or from the exhaust and going in to the chamber itll knock itself off.
have you got a pipe off the exhaust to lead the gasses away from the unit?

im sure i had this problem on the bench with mine but when i put the pipework on it stopped it

[ghost123uk]

i think theres a sensor that detects burnt gasses in the hot air chamber..if its gathering internally or from the exhaust and going in to the chamber itll knock itself off.

From doing a bit of research I have found the only sensor is a flame sensor that knocks it off if the flame goes out (after a cycle of the igniter attempting to do a re-light)

But...

have you got a pipe off the exhaust to lead the gasses away from the unit? im sure i had this problem on the bench with mine but when i put the pipework on it stopped it

However that is certainly worth a try, tomorrow If you are right I will be so happy you mentioned it

If not, I will try it with all the required sealer applied to the case joins.
Otherwise it is price up a new flame sensor !

[CovKid]

Pics of the bearing would have been handy as my motor is noisy and sounds like it needs attention.

Will make a point of taking photos then