1988 west joker 2.1dj doing my head in......

[six]

Excuse the rant, searched hi and low, tried lots, no longer sure of my a*** from my elbow ... need a clear perspective. 2.1dj westy newish VW engine 30K, gas conversion impco CA100 swapped from previous engine ran perfectly on trips back and forth between spain (home) and work (uk) for 5 years. Always a first kick or nothing starter, but reliable in that devil you know kind of way. Decelerating on M4 slip road enroute for spain after a brief spell at 120kmh (first and maybe last as it turned out), heard 2 loud bangs from underneath rhs thought someone had thrown something at the van, sudden loss of power. Limped to bristol on gas 40kmh max, as petrol not working, phoned Baxter who suggested AFM, ordered and fitted a new one along with temp 2 sender blue, stainless exhaust that was leaking before. New king lead that was sparking and probably caused the initial explosion. New plugs from halfords with 4 fancy contacts, new dizzy cap with snazzy black cover and rotor arm, it needed a service anyway. So far so good,but impossible to start with out foot to the floor cranking but OK once running, (maybe you can't have everything).
Back in London living in van for a few vital weeks work(freezing) . Increasingly reluctant to start or run when cold on petrol, Ok once warm. Cleaned all the contacts in engine bay with toothbrush and electrical cleaner, huge improvement starts first kick but stalls after 5-8 secs. Will only run under rampant acceleration which is impractical with an Auto as you can't slip the clutch.
Hardly any gas stations in Spain (less than a dozen) so need the petrol to work.
Studied my treasured Bentley got out the multimeter and with the help of a friend ascertained that :
Throttle switch micro switch clicks after 3-4mm deflection of knobbly bit on end of arm above butterfly spring and again at end... OK
bridged 2 plugs from cream box on engine lh bulkhead, and for good measure swapped unit with one from 1988 synchro with identical (except coil) engine... OK
swapped and measured from Hall sender unit.... OK
bought new/old ECU.... OK
Swapped fuel relays from black box with lightning sticker yellow...OK
Swapped ISCU.... OK

Symptoms, starts like a dream (incidentally undoing the throttle enrichment screw takes you from cranking with foot to the floor for ages to starting first kick but living with too high revs once warm), then after 5 -10 seconds stalls. Including on the road stutters and stalls until up to temperature, (completely undriveable, definitely dangerous) switch to gas and runs fine from tick over (a bit high) all the way through.

Back story, received new fuel pump and filter, bought one from baxter but East london garage said it didn't fit (??? which surprised me but busy working so....) they supplied their own, marked VAG. Now I come to think about it, that's when the hesitating misfiring problems started...hmmm.

I've been concentrating on the idle stabilisation system though having checked and changed everything I may be looking in the wrong place......?

Any help gratefully appreciated... now its "feck" snowing!

[Aidan]

filter is after the pump so if the filter is the wrong one you probably don't have correct fuel pressure
correct filter is 1H0 201 511 A which should be what Simon supplied unless you ordered the wrong one (ie for a 1.9)

[six]

thanks I'll try that if i can tunnel through the snow to get to it.
Would that explain the temperature element? When cold starts perfectly and then runs for 5 - 8 secs when hot (by using gas) runs better albeit stuttery?

[Aidan]

warm engine needs less fuel

[six]

Thanks, that makes sense as would a rusty tank, blocking the new filter I guess? Is there an easy i.e. crawling underneath way to check the tank condition?
cheers Simon

[mark]

metal micky,(aka the lord of the weld) has an interesting method, give it a good boot it makes you wince but works

how old is fuel and is it 98 ron

mark

[six]

Checked the filter all good, the big one and seems well fitted. The pump is silver, rather than simon's stealth black ones smaller and probably after market though only a couple of months old,, supplied by non vw garage so could be at fault. Haven't had the chance to pull it and check it's not full of rust yet.
A bit distracted as the car backfired on gas during testing and took out my nice new AFM. Aaaargh.. Currently trying to take that apart at the bottom and see if I can salvage it... not holding out much hope though. I guess a dodgy lead (I thought they'd been changed) coupled with 4 electrode plugs suggested by halfords might be contributory. That'll teach me for overlooking the basics.
Anyone know if a leak under the breather tower would cause stalling as whilst cleaning, the carb cleaner seemed to disappear underneath?

[syncroand101]

Have you tried bypassing the Idle stabiliser? If it is the one with the grey box to the left with two leads going into it, you can plug them together to bypass it. When I had a 2.1DJ with really odd running problems this is what it turned out to be.

Does sounds like you are slowly covering al the possibles one by one mind..

[AdrianC]

Have you tried bypassing the Idle stabiliser? If it is the one with the grey box to the left with two leads going into it, you can plug them together to bypass it.

On the LH of the engine bay? Aha - that IS what it is, then... I could've sworn I'd read it was behind the RH taillight - not tried looking there yet.

[icosahedron]

IS is on LHS of engine bay, ISCU is behind RHS tail light. IS controls idling by electronically advancing ignition timing and ICSU by adjusting airflow through ISU.

If I remember correctly ETKA shows IS with ISCU part number which causes confusion.

[six]

Thanks everyone. Yup by passed to no avail also swapped hall sender and ecu with known good ones. Cleaned all contacts found rubbed through insulation on red wire from gas to AFM lead probably didn't help . Still waiting for replacement AFM so can't progress much. Stuck in customs. If anyone has a wiring diagram for a 2.1 dj it would be much appreciated. The Vanagons were different! Cleaned IS and swapped with a friends that wasn't it..... that engine is getting mighty clean though.
PS am in Viccy park london if there are any 2.1 dj owners in the hood?

[AdrianC]

IS is on LHS of engine bay, ISCU is behind RHS tail light.

Gottit. I went in through the plastic cover around the air intake in the engine bay - but removing the light looks like it might be easier. Either way, the inside of the box contains a couple of very 'orrible looking capacitorythings, so I think I have a suspect.

And - Six - you're absolutely right. There's a real dearth of DJ injection info out there - and a wiring diagram/diagnostic doc would be a real help.

[mark]

And - Six - you're absolutely right. There's a real dearth of DJ injection info out there - and a wiring diagram/diagnostic doc would be a real help.

if you search ''stabalistion'' on here, brickwerks and the samba there is a few nights reading i had to read a lot of unrelated stuff but it all helps, haynes have the wiring diagrams and fault finding as does the bentley. i spent ages looking and finding nothing and came across the stabalistion search by chance.
good luck

mark

[six]

Still struggling with the stalling thing.... I realise I've gone about it in an unmethodical way but did start with no AFM which makes life more difficult! Have now replaced the following: AFM twice due to 2 explosions whilst running on gas, Thermo time switch (the blue one, swapped by garage), hall sender, ISCU (behind rear light) and ECU, cleaned all contacts and earths and IS (previously not working) now buzzing happily, car now starts first kick every time but dies after 5-10 seconds. Found and repaired 4 wires with cracks in insulation enroute to the AFM changed plugs for bosch single point and replaced leads, cap and rotor arm. When warm runs much better than ever before,only slightly lumpy and no hot start problems, no stalling either. TPS clicks in the right places, has the correct gap and is receiving voltage but yesterday was struggling to get a continuity reading from it cold, (maybe ignorance and only having a french version of the multimeter instructions...will engage the services of a more electrically minded friend tomorrow to make sure it's working and not just making micro switchy noises. I'm sure I read somewhere about a coolant temp switch malfunctioning or not relaying info due to the use of too much sealant???? Perhaps it's faulty even though it's new. Will try tomorrow to measure resistance with the aid of a childs thermometer. Learning a lot about the ignition/engine management system which is useful but want it to run without stalling.... what's so frustrating is it works perfectly for the first 10 secs then obviously doesn't receive the necessary info from the ECU to continue.....

[Aidan]

re throttle switch issue, recheck that cos at start up ecu is running start map, then it goes to idle stabiliser map (if requested, ie switch is at idle position) and idle control should take over, what happens if you start and give it some revs straight away does it run then die when you try and idle ?