Hi guys I'm a new member and new to vdubs,I've just got my first 1983 hold worth conversion water cooled beauty but I'm having a problem getting her started and running after changing the battery
Anyone in the Stratford area of London could take a look would be cool and I'll repay with tea and coffee and biscuits
Cheers guys for reading sorry for being vague
Terry
Newbie needs help
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Tel87
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- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Newbie needs help
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
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edoh
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- Location: epping essex
Re: Newbie needs help
was the van starting ok before you changed the battery? are the battery leads on tight? all on the right way?
battery well charged?
av you had a look at -
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki?ti ... t+starting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
?
do ignition lights come on? headlights? and then....? a clunk sound or nothing? -
gissa a bit more detail....
battery well charged?
av you had a look at -
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki?ti ... t+starting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
?
do ignition lights come on? headlights? and then....? a clunk sound or nothing? -
gissa a bit more detail....
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-
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Tel87
- Registered user
- Posts: 222
- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
I had a good look and it turns out the starter motor is nakerd. It pritty much dropped its guts when I took it apart. I'm going to need a new or refurbe unless anyone is selling one. Thanks for the advise
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
-
edoh
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- Joined: 12 Aug 2007, 08:42
- 80-90 Mem No: 3974
- Location: epping essex
Re: Newbie needs help
IF YOUR SURE IT IS THE STARTER MOTOR - (N NOT THE CONNECTIONS GOING TO SOLENOID / STARTER OR THE BUSH) (ooops notices capitals!) -
give out some detail on who/where you are/ - what kind of van u drive - n maybe an advert in the wanted section of the forum?
give out some detail on who/where you are/ - what kind of van u drive - n maybe an advert in the wanted section of the forum?
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-
-
Tel87
- Registered user
- Posts: 222
- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
Some info on me - my names Terry Howe i live just of the Romford rd near stratford east London. iv not long had my van it's a yreg 1983 tin top. I think that's what you call them,well it hasn't got a pop top anyway,1900 water cooled engine. Brown and baigey colour it's had a full holdsworth conversion and it's absolutely mint on the inside.but it's just the engine I'm worried about. Apparently it was just standing fully exsposed to the elements for the last 6 yrs and I bought it for a bargin 500 quid iv sorn it of road at the moment but would like to be on the road for bus freeze I just can't wait to get involved.
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
-
Tel87
- Registered user
- Posts: 222
- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
I'm pretty sure it's the unit that's nakerd as it just fell apart plus it did start a last week. I haven't drove it yet and it hasn't been driven for years I just hope it's all ok and what I thought was a bargin may well become a nightmare. 
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
-
edoh
- Registered user
- Posts: 240
- Joined: 12 Aug 2007, 08:42
- 80-90 Mem No: 3974
- Location: epping essex
Re: Newbie needs help
ello terry - one repair at a time sounds like a good way to go -
useful to pace yourself with these vans
do you have a local garage/friendly mechanic/forum member/ haynes manual/ that knows their way round these vans?
any photos of the starter motor looking 'knackered'? checked all the connections to solenoid/starter? battery deffo has 12+volts - and cables clean n tight - including earth cables - on battery - in engine bay - under gearbox?
tried the mighty 'hammer test'? - (see below) -
All engine faults/repairs/maintenance reluctant starting
From VW T25(T3)-Tech
Jump to: navigation, search
Qu: When starting my van the lights come on but nothing happens, it is totally dead... battery is ok ...
Pop under the driverside rear wheel arch and check the signal wire to the starter motor is connected to the spade connector on the solenoid.
1. Turn key to first position- red dash lights not coming on. Battery flat or electrical connection faulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown
2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, See 1, starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose.
If connections are secure and not corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. Suspect worn starter motor bush.
Vanjam: There is an assumption that starters failing to engage is inevitably a consequence of the bearing in the bellhousing
being worn, please note symptoms of starter turning and not engaging can also result from the following:
a) The clutch drive on the starter can be worn beyond repair and needs replacing;
b) There is a liner or "bearing" on the inner circumferenece of the starter pinion. If this is worn out the pinion can flay about sufficiently to prevent engagement with flywheel
General Note: You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check the battery connections. They need to be clean and tight otherwise the voltage drop will be so high that the starter motor won't have enogh current to turn.
Not enough volts at starter - check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.
Check signal from ignition key - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...
Motor worn-check - By jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. Make sure van is out of gear!
If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - warning of false assumption!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key (Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!) If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above!). Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The Brickyard discussion
All petrol models. Poor starting. (Not diesels) Engine turns over slowly, if you don't catch it first time you've got no chance of starting it today. Battery, alternator and wiring all checks out good. Worn started bush. For some reason VW decided to have the starter motors with only one end of the armature located in a bearing, the other end is located in a bush in the bell housing. The bushes wear and disintegrate, this lets the armature of the motor "cock" over, stator now touches armature, excess friction hey presto one slow turning engine. Remedy is to fit new starter bush, trouble is they are a bit of a pain to do. On the good side they cost about £1 2004! Remove starter, pick out old bush with a screw driver, if its stuck fast use an expanding masonry bolt to grab it and pull it out (internal diameter of new bush is 12mm). Press new bush into place. Note that these bushes are not phosphor bronze but Oilite! They need to be left to soak in engine oil for 24 hours prior to fitment to prime them (can just squeeze oil into them forefinger and thumb a few times! - Ed).
Irish David
Petrol There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.
Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss. If it's not holding a charge then supect the battery.
Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.
Once you have eliminated your battery as a suspect problem, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.
Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.
Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Irish David
There is a test you can do with the starter motor in the van to see if the solenoid is working properly. To do this you'll need a battery that you know for sure is good and a voltmeter.
Whenever the van is hot and isn't starting put the voltmeter on the starter battery terminals. When you turn the key the voltage on the battery should dip down to under 10v (if it does, release the key straight away). If the voltage on the battery only drops a little bit then the solenoid on the starter motor isn't working properly.
The way the starter (on my van anyway) works is that there's an electrical solenoid mounted on top of the main motor. A solenoid is a electro-mechanical device that is basically an electrical coil thats wound round a solid metal piston. When 12v is applied to the coil the magnetism produced moves the piston through the coil.
When you turn the key the solenoid energises and moves the piston which is connected to the pinion gear which then engages the pinion gear on the flywheel. At the end of the pistons travel there is a high current mechanical switch. When the piston hits this it connects the battery to the main motor and the starter should turn and start the van.
The piston is a very tight fit into the cylinder that the coils in so in older starters it can get a bit jammed. Thats why the age old trick of giving starter motors a "technical tap" with a hammer is so popular. A crack with a hammer can free up jammed pistons.
You can also measure the resistance of the solenoid coil and starter motor windings to make sure they're ok (should only be a couple of ohms, if that), but if the vans starting from cold then they're not likely to be the problem.
My starter motor had a solenoid that could be dismantled, so when i had the starter motor off to change the bush i took the solenoid apart. After a good clean and a tiny amount of the thinnist oil i could fine the solenoid was as good as new. After that and a bit of re-wiring my van starts on 1 turn in all conditions (including not be run for 3 months).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Petrol There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.
Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss. If it's not holding a charge then supect the battery.
Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.
Once you have eliminated your battery as a suspect problem, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.
Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.
Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.
useful to pace yourself with these vans
do you have a local garage/friendly mechanic/forum member/ haynes manual/ that knows their way round these vans?
any photos of the starter motor looking 'knackered'? checked all the connections to solenoid/starter? battery deffo has 12+volts - and cables clean n tight - including earth cables - on battery - in engine bay - under gearbox?
tried the mighty 'hammer test'? - (see below) -
All engine faults/repairs/maintenance reluctant starting
From VW T25(T3)-Tech
Jump to: navigation, search
Qu: When starting my van the lights come on but nothing happens, it is totally dead... battery is ok ...
Pop under the driverside rear wheel arch and check the signal wire to the starter motor is connected to the spade connector on the solenoid.
1. Turn key to first position- red dash lights not coming on. Battery flat or electrical connection faulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown
2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, See 1, starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose.
If connections are secure and not corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. Suspect worn starter motor bush.
Vanjam: There is an assumption that starters failing to engage is inevitably a consequence of the bearing in the bellhousing
being worn, please note symptoms of starter turning and not engaging can also result from the following:
a) The clutch drive on the starter can be worn beyond repair and needs replacing;
b) There is a liner or "bearing" on the inner circumferenece of the starter pinion. If this is worn out the pinion can flay about sufficiently to prevent engagement with flywheel
General Note: You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check the battery connections. They need to be clean and tight otherwise the voltage drop will be so high that the starter motor won't have enogh current to turn.
Not enough volts at starter - check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.
Check signal from ignition key - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...
Motor worn-check - By jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. Make sure van is out of gear!
If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - warning of false assumption!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key (Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!) If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above!). Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The Brickyard discussion
All petrol models. Poor starting. (Not diesels) Engine turns over slowly, if you don't catch it first time you've got no chance of starting it today. Battery, alternator and wiring all checks out good. Worn started bush. For some reason VW decided to have the starter motors with only one end of the armature located in a bearing, the other end is located in a bush in the bell housing. The bushes wear and disintegrate, this lets the armature of the motor "cock" over, stator now touches armature, excess friction hey presto one slow turning engine. Remedy is to fit new starter bush, trouble is they are a bit of a pain to do. On the good side they cost about £1 2004! Remove starter, pick out old bush with a screw driver, if its stuck fast use an expanding masonry bolt to grab it and pull it out (internal diameter of new bush is 12mm). Press new bush into place. Note that these bushes are not phosphor bronze but Oilite! They need to be left to soak in engine oil for 24 hours prior to fitment to prime them (can just squeeze oil into them forefinger and thumb a few times! - Ed).
Irish David
Petrol There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.
Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss. If it's not holding a charge then supect the battery.
Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.
Once you have eliminated your battery as a suspect problem, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.
Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.
Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Irish David
There is a test you can do with the starter motor in the van to see if the solenoid is working properly. To do this you'll need a battery that you know for sure is good and a voltmeter.
Whenever the van is hot and isn't starting put the voltmeter on the starter battery terminals. When you turn the key the voltage on the battery should dip down to under 10v (if it does, release the key straight away). If the voltage on the battery only drops a little bit then the solenoid on the starter motor isn't working properly.
The way the starter (on my van anyway) works is that there's an electrical solenoid mounted on top of the main motor. A solenoid is a electro-mechanical device that is basically an electrical coil thats wound round a solid metal piston. When 12v is applied to the coil the magnetism produced moves the piston through the coil.
When you turn the key the solenoid energises and moves the piston which is connected to the pinion gear which then engages the pinion gear on the flywheel. At the end of the pistons travel there is a high current mechanical switch. When the piston hits this it connects the battery to the main motor and the starter should turn and start the van.
The piston is a very tight fit into the cylinder that the coils in so in older starters it can get a bit jammed. Thats why the age old trick of giving starter motors a "technical tap" with a hammer is so popular. A crack with a hammer can free up jammed pistons.
You can also measure the resistance of the solenoid coil and starter motor windings to make sure they're ok (should only be a couple of ohms, if that), but if the vans starting from cold then they're not likely to be the problem.
My starter motor had a solenoid that could be dismantled, so when i had the starter motor off to change the bush i took the solenoid apart. After a good clean and a tiny amount of the thinnist oil i could fine the solenoid was as good as new. After that and a bit of re-wiring my van starts on 1 turn in all conditions (including not be run for 3 months).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Petrol There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.
Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss. If it's not holding a charge then supect the battery.
Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.
Once you have eliminated your battery as a suspect problem, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.
Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.
Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.
Owner of a red T25 fixed hi top campervan - colour - spikey red - petrol - water cooled - 1.9 dg engine rhd - 1990 g reg n still going strong!-
-
Tel87
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- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
I took the starter motor apart and all it's guts just fell out. I took it to a local parts shop and he pretty much built me a new one for £50 he's really good I would recommend him to anyone. The shops called Auto Rewind and it's on Prince Regents land, London E13
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
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LittleMissSunshine
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Tel87
- Registered user
- Posts: 222
- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
Ah not yet I've still got a few bits to do to get it through an m.o.t, but she's running now and I can't wait to get on the road and start meeting u amazing lot lol 
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
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pionte
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Re: Newbie needs help
Sounds like a real bargain ! The Holdsworth conversions are really under rated , although they did win best conversions for a few years in the 80's.
The Mechanicals on these vans are really quite basic.... get yourself a Haynes or similar , read through the WIKI on here, grab a cup of tea and most things are possible .....
much more worrying would be the condition of the body work... unless you are adept in the black art of welding that is !
Have you any pics ? there is a good article in the wiki on how to post pics.
welcome , and enjoy
Martin.
The Mechanicals on these vans are really quite basic.... get yourself a Haynes or similar , read through the WIKI on here, grab a cup of tea and most things are possible .....
much more worrying would be the condition of the body work... unless you are adept in the black art of welding that is !
Have you any pics ? there is a good article in the wiki on how to post pics.
welcome , and enjoy
Martin.
2.5 Quad Cam Scooby engine . Westfalia California 1989
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Tel87
- Registered user
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- Joined: 20 Nov 2011, 18:27
- 80-90 Mem No: 10491
- Location: Forest gate/Stratford. London
Re: Newbie needs help
I am trying to upload some snaps but I'm having trouble because I only have an iPhone or iPad. I do have loads of pics of my vans progress and I've also got pics of the interior to find out how things work I'm really scratching my head just trying to work out what switch is for what and also how to get the hotbox working.
1983 water-cooled Holdsworthy tintop 1900cc
