LED Lights

[dazzler441]

Hello all, does anybody know whether there are any laws or MOT failures around the use of LED rear bulbs. VW Heritage have a number for the rear light cluster, indicators, fog lights etc, but somebody at JK was warning that if they were n't fitted to the van prior (they meant at Manufacture) then you could n't use them. I don't know of any pre 1991 vehicle that would have had fitted LED lights so a little confused.
Does any of the experts here have an idea?
Thanks

I've posted the quote form JK, to aid in the confusion:

"All illumination levels are of a suitable standard to be legal and will pass an MOT but due to some legislation they are not strictly legal as there are certain clauses imply you must replace a filament bulb with a filament bulb, if the vehicle was fitted with LED bulbs originally then this is legal, so therefore LED's are not illegal in their own right."

[Mickyfin]

If its any constellation, when I lived in the UK a few years back, when I used to restore GSi2000 4x4 saloon cars as a hobby, the one I kept for myself, I converted every single light on it with leds, and the thing flew through its mot's without any bother.

[CovKid]

I run with LED bulbs throughout other than headlights. Always passes. In fact, they're generally deemed safer by the experts as they respond faster than filament bulbs, perfect for brake lights.

[dugcati]

Aren't they std fitting for brake lights and indicators on new audi's/beemers along with what seems like all new busses/lorries?

[dazzler441]

Thanks for the advice, I'll fit the one's I have then.

[elsid]

Some classic motorcycle enthusiasts have been fitting them for some time now and I haven't heard of any M.O.T failures due to there fitment.
Sid

[Oldiebut goodie]

The problem may be that leds tend to have a very narrow beam - if the bulb hasn't been constructed correctly the viewing angle may not be sufficient to satisfy the regulations. When I make a bulb up I am careful to ensure that the leds are orientated to cover virtually all angles within the reflector.

[CovKid]

The other issue (particularly if using the fleabay) is that the quality varies greatly. Have bought some that lasted just weeks so watch yourself.

[billy739]

have a read

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_120.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as far as the mot is concerned the lights must work , lights on both sides of the vehicle must put out a similar amount of light , not flicker and show the correct colour of light

and thats about it

[Oldiebut goodie]

Road vehicle lighting regs 1989 give you this:

3. Angles of visibility–

(a) A motor vehicle, other than a motor bicycle combination, first used on or after 1st April 1986 and a trailer manufactured on or after 1st October 1985–

(i)
Horizontal–



(A)
Where two lamp are required to be fitted:

45° inwards and 80° outwards

(B)
Where one lamp is required to be fitted:

80° to the left and to the right

(C)
Where four lamps are required to be fitted–



(1)
The outer pair of lamps:

0° inwards and 80° outwards

(2)
The inner pair of lamps:

45° inwards and 80° outwards

(ii)
Vertical–



(A)
Where one or two rear position lamps are required to be fitted–



(1)
Any vehicle not covered by sub-paragraph (2) or (3):

15° above and below the horizontal

(2)
Where the highest part of the illuminated area of the lamp is less than 1500 mm above the ground:

15° above and 10° below the horizontal

(3)
Where the highest part of the illuminated area of the lamp is less than 750 mm above the ground:

15° above and 5° below the horizontal

This is why I make them to cover the angles as in the reflector.

[CycloneMike]

It may be to do with type approval issues and E marks.
By the strict letter of law (Vehicle lighting regs etc) your lens unit is tested for use with a certain type of lamp which in combination are approved to provide the right intensity and beam pattern and angles of visibility to comply with legal requirements etc. To show the bulbs conform they have an E mark on them.

LED bulbs may not have been tested and may not carry an E mark. However your MOT man isn't supposed to dismantle anything as part of your MOT so unless they give an obvious poor light etc its not likley to be an issue FOR MOT.

Your modern car fitted with LEDs has had its light cluster type approved for LEDs which is why it is allowed.

With regard to safety LEDs are claimed to illuminate about 0.2 seconds quicker than filament lamps. It all helps but its not a lot of extra time to take evasive action. At 70MPH that gives you (or those behind you) about 6 Meters extra stopping space, that assumes they were paying attention and weren't too close anyway.

[handsoff666]

I have been using LED's for some time with no problem. I use the 360 degree view LED's. However do not get the LED indicator bulbs as they dont work. Because the LED is very low power it confuses the van and makes it act as if the lamp is blown. Also I have the smoked rear lens and they just pass for luminosity!
If its any interest I have also converted to 55W HID's and these work perfect however I have to keep converting back to originals for MOT because the way the T3 headlamp is wired it make my dipped beam come on when it should only be sidelights. This is worth living with

[CovKid]

They do a relay for LED indicators. I know - I've got one:D

[handsoff666]

Ok Covkid. Tell me more

[billy739]

you can fit a led specific flasher unit or put the led conversion resistor in the line !